Would anti-UKIP people care to explain this to me?...

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pmc:producer
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I'm fascinated with the hypocrisy of some of the anti-UKIP men and woman out there... I must stress it is some, as a few people do bring reasoned arguments to the table as to why the object to UKIP.

But in my experience, the majority of people I come across who dislike (sometimes quite passionately) UKIP are total hypocrites.

For example, anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Romanian's are the same."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Muslims are terrorists."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "all members/supporters are racist."

You cannot have it both ways, either you can't tar everyone with the same brush, or you can? Make your mind up - the hypocrisy is embarrassing and quite frustrating.

Do you even think before you speak when you say things like this? The irony is astounding.


Any before we have a mass of touchy people whining about how I'm a UKIP advocate and a racist, no, I'm not. I do like Farage, and I do like the way UKIP has caused a stir and got people engaged with politics again - they've made the 'mainstream parties' talk about important issues they'd otherwise happily ignore. That said, they are a million miles away from being in a position to effectively run the country and some of their policies (based on their last manifesto) need addressing.

Are they a racist party? Of course not. They want to control immigration, not stop it. Something all parties across the board want too. Yet we have people out there who will say things like, 'but some of their supporters/members are openly racist' - so what? Does that make the party racist? Of course not. The same way the racist supporters/members of the Tories, Labour and Lib Dem party's don't make them racist. Are JD Sports racist because they have some racist customers? Or BMW? Of course not. It's silliness.
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a729
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It's similar to the people in Scotland who called him racist but said..'go back to England'!

It's an inherent hypocrisy of quite a few on the left.
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RF_PineMarten
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(Original post by pmc:producer)
For example, anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Romanian's are the same."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Muslims are terrorists."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "all members/supporters are racist."

You cannot have it both ways, either you can't tar everyone with the same brush, or you can? Make your mind up - the hypocrisy is embarrassing and quite frustrating.
A sort of fair point. Of course a few anti-UKIP people will generalise, but I don't think many sensible people honestly think that all UKIP supporters are racist. However, there are documented problems for UKIP in this area.

Most UKIP supporters are reasonable people but the party does seem to attract some questionable characters, despite being a smaller party with fewer councillors, fewer members and no MPs.
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Joeman560
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(Original post by RFowler)
Most UKIP supporters are reasonable people but the party does seem to attract some questionable characters
No, politics in general bring out the freaks and weirdos. As far as I'm concerned anyone who actually wants to be a politician for anything other than sheer hatred of the current system cannot be trusted.
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pmc:producer
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(Original post by RFowler)
However, there are documented problems for UKIP in this area.
So what you're implying is we follow the media blindly? I mean, we hear of UKIP every other week with regards to racism, what about the 9 politicians that stepped down the other week due to institutional racism (lab) which totally went under the radar?...
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pmc:producer
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(Original post by Joeman560)
No, politics in general bring out the freaks and weirdos. As far as I'm concerned anyone who actually wants to be a politician for anything other than sheer hatred of the current system cannot be trusted.
Fair point!
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uxa595
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(Original post by pmc:producer)
I'm fascinated with the hypocrisy of some of the anti-UKIP men and woman out there... I must stress it is some, as a few people do bring reasoned arguments to the table as to why the object to UKIP.

But in my experience, the majority of people I come across who dislike (sometimes quite passionately) UKIP are total hypocrites.

For example, anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Romanian's are the same."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Muslims are terrorists."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "all members/supporters are racist."

You cannot have it both ways, either you can't tar everyone with the same brush, or you can? Make your mind up - the hypocrisy is embarrassing and quite frustrating.

Do you even think before you speak when you say things like this? The irony is astounding.


Any before we have a mass of touchy people whining about how I'm a UKIP advocate and a racist, no, I'm not. I do like Farage, and I do like the way UKIP has caused a stir and got people engaged with politics again - they've made the 'mainstream parties' talk about important issues they'd otherwise happily ignore. That said, they are a million miles away from being in a position to effectively run the country and some of their policies (based on their last manifesto) need addressing.

Are they a racist party? Of course not. They want to control immigration, not stop it. Something all parties across the board want too. Yet we have people out there who will say things like, 'but some of their supporters/members are openly racist' - so what? Does that make the party racist? Of course not. The same way the racist supporters/members of the Tories, Labour and Lib Dem party's don't make them racist. Are JD Sports racist because they have some racist customers? Or BMW? Of course not. It's silliness.
Your're off it.

An extremely small percentage of muslims are terrorists.
Well, of course not all Romanians are the same. What are you getting at?

Now to the topic at hand. The issue is the party is racist, not just that some supporters may be racist. You can't go a month without having a person WITHIN (not a supporter/voter) the UKIP party saying something extremely racist. This can only happen so many times before you realise that the framework, views and aims of the party are racist.
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Rlove95
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The sort of people UKIP is attracting generally hold racist or xenophobic views. That paired with the fact that a lot of UKIP members have been shown to have racist views tends to add to the view that the majority of UKIP voters and members are closet racists while not all of them are, it does seem like quite a significant number of them are.
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Andy98
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statistically speaking a fair number of UKIP supporters/members are racist in one way or another - however I do see your point - to be fair we could do with a party like UKIP to cap immigration
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Georgie_M
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I have said this before on one of the MANY threads on this topic and I will say it again.

Most people do not think UKIP are racist however it is pretty clear that their bigoted policies are more likely to attract bigoted individuals (like racists). That's just common sense.
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Old_Simon
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Calling UKIP "racist" is only a by product of another misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that UKIP are anti immigration. It is true. They are. But far more importantly they are anti the EU in toto. Uncontrolled immigration is simply one particular manifestation of the EU regime, it is one which resonates with many people, and it gives a focus to the policy in practical terms which people can identify with. Leaving the EU is a perfectly sensible political proposition which people may or may not be in favour of. Trivialising UKIP in the way the media are fond of simply casts them as plucky under dogs which the voters are flocking to. Parties like the Greens and Lib Dems are green with envy at the traction UKIP are getting. Incidentally it is a fact that many of the well established immigrant communities in this country are also anti further immigration particularly from East Europe. There is nothing racist about UKIP at all.
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pmc:producer
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(Original post by uxa595)
Your're off it.

An extremely small percentage of muslims are terrorists.
Well, of course not all Romanians are the same. What are you getting at?

Now to the topic at hand. The issue is the party is racist, not just that some supporters may be racist. You can't go a month without having a person WITHIN (not a supporter/voter) the UKIP party saying something extremely racist. This can only happen so many times before you realise that the framework, views and aims of the party are racist.
You're the epitome of the hypocrites I was talking about...

'Not all Muslims are terrorists'.. 'Not all Romanian's are the same'... 'UKIP (thereby all affiliated) are racist'


EDIT: Out of curiosity... Please, show me where 'the party are racist'?
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uxa595
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(Original post by pmc:producer)
You're the epitome of the hypocrites I was talking about...

'Not all Muslims are terrorists'.. 'Not all Romanian's are the same'... 'UKIP (thereby all affiliated) are racist'.

EDIT: Out of curiosity... Please, show me where 'the party are racist'?
I said no such thing about Romanians. Of course not all Muslims are terrorists.
However, the general consensus of the people i've talked to is UKIP are just closet racists. This is for good reason but we won't get into that conversation.

Did I say all those affiliated with UKIP are racist? No, I said the party and it's aims are racist
What do you mean by affiliated? Party members or voters?

What I did imply is a good portion of UKIP's members are PROVEN to be racist by their own public comments made. An organisation is just the ideals of it's members. So when so many UKIP members have racist thoughts, it's fairly obvious UKIP as a party is racist is some ways.
This does not mean to say all UKIP members are racist.


Also, if you can't do a basic google search on UKIP or pay attention to news over the past yr, I can't help you.
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DK_Tipp
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(Original post by pmc:producer)
I'm fascinated with the hypocrisy of some of the anti-UKIP men and woman out there... I must stress it is some, as a few people do bring reasoned arguments to the table as to why the object to UKIP.

But in my experience, the majority of people I come across who dislike (sometimes quite passionately) UKIP are total hypocrites.

For example, anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Romanian's are the same."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "not all Muslims are terrorists."

Anti-UKIP person tells us "all members/supporters are racist."

You cannot have it both ways, either you can't tar everyone with the same brush, or you can? Make your mind up - the hypocrisy is embarrassing and quite frustrating.

Do you even think before you speak when you say things like this? The irony is astounding.


Any before we have a mass of touchy people whining about how I'm a UKIP advocate and a racist, no, I'm not. I do like Farage, and I do like the way UKIP has caused a stir and got people engaged with politics again - they've made the 'mainstream parties' talk about important issues they'd otherwise happily ignore. That said, they are a million miles away from being in a position to effectively run the country and some of their policies (based on their last manifesto) need addressing.

Are they a racist party? Of course not. They want to control immigration, not stop it. Something all parties across the board want too. Yet we have people out there who will say things like, 'but some of their supporters/members are openly racist' - so what? Does that make the party racist? Of course not. The same way the racist supporters/members of the Tories, Labour and Lib Dem party's don't make them racist. Are JD Sports racist because they have some racist customers? Or BMW? Of course not. It's silliness.
This is a nonsense argument. If all Muslims were terrorists, the rest of us would be ******. That's basic logic.

Romanians aren't all the same, largely because nobody chooses to be Romanian it's an arbitrary nationality not a personality trait. However, you choose to support UKIP, based, we have to presume, on their principles and policies. If an individual were to deem UKIPs policies as xenophobic, isolationist or even racist then it is no great leap for that person to assume that UKIP members are xenophobic or racist.

For the record I don't believe that UKIP members are all racists but they sail close enough to the wind to attract bigots who if given a chance will steer the party towards outright xenophobia.
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Ggmu!
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UKIP attracts too many racists. If you deny that, there is no hope.

It's a shame Farage cannot be taken as seriously with a band of fools behind him.


Reasonable people don't believe everyone in UKIP is racist. Not to mention I've seen enough of your posts to know you're not stupid to actually think that, OP. So I'm not sure why you made this thread, other than for some misguided pity or sympathy.


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CharlieTT
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You are however, painting all anti-UKIP people with the same brush. I don't think that all Romanians are as UKIP portray them (The terking er jerbs, sort. Also might I just add they are saying more Romanians want our jobs than are actually in Romania), I have two Romanian friends currently studying Graphic Art at UCA. I don't think that all muslims are terrorists, I again have a few muslim friends. I do NOT think that all UKIP members are racist, contrary to popular belief. I think they are a party that inherently attracts racist people, due to their stances on border control and immigration, and they most certainly have racist and xenophobic members. But are they a racist party as a whole? Of course not.
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thatgr
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(Original post by Andy98)
statistically speaking a fair number of UKIP supporters/members are racist in one way or another - however I do see your point - to be fair we could do with a party like UKIP to cap immigration
care to link me to these statistics
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thatgr
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(Original post by uxa595)
I said no such thing about Romanians. Of course not all Muslims are terrorists,
However, the general consensus of the people i've talked to is UKIP are just closet racists. This is for good reason but we won't get into that conversation.

Did I say all those affiliated with UKIP are racist? No, I said the party and it's aims are racist
What do you mean by affiliated? Party members or voters?

What I did imply is a good portion of UKIP's members are PROVEN to be racist by their own public comments made. An organisation is just the ideals of it's members. So when so many UKIP members have racist thoughts, it's fairly obvious UKIP as a party is racist is some ways.
This does not mean to say all UKIP members are racist.


Also, if you can't do a basic google search on UKIP or pay attention to news over the past yr, I can't help you..
How does UKIP have racist aims? It aims to control immigration, not from specific races, but it aims to only allow in those who are useful. It doesn't say anywhere 'no black people' 'no muslims'. If a person wants to come in, they have to prove themselves to be useful.
A good portion of UKIP members? Do you mean a few out of the thousands of supporters, who get publicity by the media?
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Thomassss
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Your comparing muslims to UKIP which is quite stupid.

Muslims are a wide and diverse religion with over 1400 years of division and different traditions.

Whilst UKIP are a uniform homogenous political party.

People can have different interpretations of Islam but not of UKIP. UKIP is a political party with one single party platform which everyone who joins agrees to.

Islam has no central body. UKIP does and its leaflets and campaign slogans is cleverly worded to appeal to particular group of people.


Being Romanian says nothing about a persons beliefs or actions, whilst being a member of UKIP means you agree with UKIP.
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pmc:producer
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Wow - only because you tried to correct my grammar (epic fail - coincidentally, please understand when I'm quoting and when I'm adding an apostrophe at the end of a word) - I feel the need to go through this and pick up on just some of the errors I found at first glance. I'm not usually that pedantic, but it's embarrassing that you'd come on here telling people to go back to English class (I can't believe people still say this ****?) with bull**** like this (I'll correct in red, shall I?):
(Original post by uxa595)
I said no such thing about Romanians. Of course not all Muslims are terrorists.
However, the general consensus of the people I've talked to, is that UKIP are just closet racists. This is for a(?) good reason, but we won't get into that conversation.

Did I say all those affiliated with UKIP are racist? No, I said the party and its (not it's - that denotes it is*) aims are racist
What do you mean by affiliated? Party members or voters?

What I did imply, is that a good portion of UKIP's members are PROVEN to be racist by their own public comments made. An organisation is just the ideals of it's members. So when so many UKIP members have racist thoughts, it's fairly obvious UKIP, as a party, is racist in some ways.
This does not mean to say that all UKIP members are racist.


Also, if you can't do a basic Google search on UKIP, or pay attention to news over the past yr, I can't help you.

EDIT: I also note in your initial post you wrote 'Your're' instead of 'You're'... Back to English classes, bro.
There, I'm glad we've got that over and done with.

Anyway, you're missing the point here. UKIP is not a racist party. By your logic, if a company has racist stakeholders/shareholders, it's a racist company? That's the black and white of it here. Where does UKIP advocate racism? It doesn't. And you can't back your 'facts' up because they aren't facts. You can talk about what UKIP members/supporters say on a weekly basis all you like - totally disregarding my comments about media in the initial post- way to go with your cherry-picking.

Using things like 'the general consensus is that UKIP are a racist party' does not mean they are a racist party. Coincidentally, 'the general consensus'? How many people did you survey to get a representative sample of opinions? Please, enlighten us.

You're beyond debating with. You don't have a clue - you can't even determine what the word 'affiliated' means in context, and you think 'the general consensus' constitutes fact. Don't quote me again, we're done talking - I've reached my limit for engaging with stupidity today.
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