Education and free will

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mysterytour
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#1
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#1
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education on the whole, but I don't quite understand why for a large portion of our lives we are legally obliged to go to school? Where does free will come into this? We could be learning relatively useful skills rather than sitting through hours of algebra and calculus which 95% of us aren't going to use realistically. Also, perhaps spare me the 'to become a functioning member of our society' bs because not everyone is designed to fit into the pre-determined structure of the country they happened to be born in to. What I'm saying is: why are there laws which quite literally dictate the childhood and future of children who might not want to be there, perhaps they could live a subsistence life. Just my strange thoughts, I'd like to see what others think.
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Mav455
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#2
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#2
I do agree with u to some extent, but if you want to go into certain careers, you need to have the qualifications to do so, especially if you have a lot of people who want to go into it
Also, the school environment with other children is rewarding to me, make new friends, learn together etc
But I think it is needed so you can learn to read, write etc, I think thats why we have freedom later to go college or not, some go college, some go into employment, some go into apprenticeships etc.
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Mav455
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#3
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#3
I do agree with u to some extent, but if you want to go into certain careers, you need to have the qualifications to do so, especially if you have a lot of people who want to go into it
Also, the school environment with other children is rewarding to me, make new friends, learn together etc
But I think it is needed so you can learn to read, write etc, I think thats why we have freedom later to go college or not, some go college, some go into employment, some go into apprenticeships etc.
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mysterytour
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#4
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#4
I think you may have slightly missed the point I was making...
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Amy. J S
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#5
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#5
(Original post by mysterytour)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education on the whole, but I don't quite understand why for a large portion of our lives we are legally obliged to go to school? Where does free will come into this? We could be learning relatively useful skills rather than sitting through hours of algebra and calculus which 95% of us aren't going to use realistically. Also, perhaps spare me the 'to become a functioning member of our society' bs because not everyone is designed to fit into the pre-determined structure of the country they happened to be born in to. What I'm saying is: why are there laws which quite literally dictate the childhood and future of children who might not want to be there, perhaps they could live a subsistence life. Just my strange thoughts, I'd like to see what others think.
I completely agree with what your saying. And I guess the only alternative of what you speak of is Elective Home Education. It isn't compulsory to be attending school, you can be the "otherwise". Here, you aren't obliged to sit the curriculum or hold any scheduled hours and timetables. I don't know the legislation precisely of the education or other 1996 Act but I know you have to be seen- if ever the circumstance arose- to be giving your child an adequate education for the age, ability and aptitude.
Although, I speak from experience, Home Education doesn't always work. For various reasons, if you aren't going in to skilled based work (which are a little more lenient on this) qualifications are still taken regardless. And from the very bottom too. I.e GCSE/ IGCSE, A LEVELS (GCE), DEGREE and so forth. But that is two separate things: The limitation of qualifications and of compulsory schooling.
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Geeky_Reader
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#6
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#6
(Original post by mysterytour)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education on the whole, but I don't quite understand why for a large portion of our lives we are legally obliged to go to school? Where does free will come into this? We could be learning relatively useful skills rather than sitting through hours of algebra and calculus which 95% of us aren't going to use realistically. Also, perhaps spare me the 'to become a functioning member of our society' bs because not everyone is designed to fit into the pre-determined structure of the country they happened to be born in to. What I'm saying is: why are there laws which quite literally dictate the childhood and future of children who might not want to be there, perhaps they could live a subsistence life. Just my strange thoughts, I'd like to see what others think.
i do agree with what you are saying, but to some extent it does help us. If we spent less time in school and spent more time doing, I don't know, whatever you do, would we learn much? I'm sure we would learn life skills and all that, but I doubt it that when you go to uni they are going to look at how you recovered from missing your favourite soap opera rather then your grades. However, an average student does have the same amount of anxiety as somebody in a psychiatric ward, and this is due to stress in lessons and as adults it will make us more-stress prone. So there are both pros and cons to this situation, but I think it depends on how we handle it.
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Dilzo999
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#7
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#7
Cause if people didn't go to school then the country wouldn't be as productive, inequality would increase, economy would suffer etc etc etc. It's not about free will or if the child wants to go or not. Because if it was down to choice then most of the people I know wouldn't have gone to school in the first place and just stayed at home probably.
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arrow900
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#8
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#8
When one applies for a job, they would need to display some sort of competence in their field of interest. Increasing population means an increase in job applications, and the fastest ,most productive way to select people based on their suitability for a specific job would require a system in which ones competence for a job can be based on some tangible asset rather than the more abstract notion of a personality.

The best method to do so, to date, is by an analysis of ones knowledge, rather than their personality, which is most effectively done by a metric system in which one gains knowledge and in return gains a recognized and respected certificate, hence the education system was invented.

I personally would like to know how the necessary lengths involved in applying to and successfully entering into a career will evolve as the population increases at an alarming rate. My guess would be some sort of lottery scheme, but I suppose we will just have to wait and see.



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username878045
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#9
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#9
(Original post by mysterytour)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education on the whole, but I don't quite understand why for a large portion of our lives we are legally obliged to go to school? Where does free will come into this? We could be learning relatively useful skills rather than sitting through hours of algebra and calculus which 95% of us aren't going to use realistically. Also, perhaps spare me the 'to become a functioning member of our society' bs because not everyone is designed to fit into the pre-determined structure of the country they happened to be born in to. What I'm saying is: why are there laws which quite literally dictate the childhood and future of children who might not want to be there, perhaps they could live a subsistence life. Just my strange thoughts, I'd like to see what others think.
The general idea is that children are not suitably aware of the consequences of their actions, and the person they will be in the future, to make an informed decision. Hence children do not have the same freedom-related rights that adults have, and are forced to go to school, because it is deemed to be in their best interests.
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SerLorasTyrell
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#10
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#10
It's so you can hopefully be a nice government owned employee that makes maximum profit for them


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username878045
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#11
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#11
(Original post by SerLorasTyrell)
It's so you can hopefully be a nice government owned employee that makes maximum profit for them
Yeah! Smash the capitalist state! Empower the proletariat by not educating them!

:dry:
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SerLorasTyrell
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#12
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#12
(Original post by PythianLegume)
Yeah! Smash the capitalist state! Empower the proletariat by not educating them!

:dry:
I didn't say that you bafoon


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username878045
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#13
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#13
(Original post by SerLorasTyrell)
I didn't say that you bafoon
I was simply mocking Marxist interpretations of education, I wasn't being serious.
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isaaccharles
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#14
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#14
Yes I'd love to stay home and watch TV all day
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Puddles the Monkey
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#15
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#15
(Original post by mysterytour)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education on the whole, but I don't quite understand why for a large portion of our lives we are legally obliged to go to school? Where does free will come into this? We could be learning relatively useful skills rather than sitting through hours of algebra and calculus which 95% of us aren't going to use realistically. Also, perhaps spare me the 'to become a functioning member of our society' bs because not everyone is designed to fit into the pre-determined structure of the country they happened to be born in to. What I'm saying is: why are there laws which quite literally dictate the childhood and future of children who might not want to be there, perhaps they could live a subsistence life. Just my strange thoughts, I'd like to see what others think.
Because having a population where everyone achieves a basic standard of numeracy and literacy is pretty important for an industrial/post-industrial society.
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SerLorasTyrell
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#16
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#16
(Original post by PythianLegume)
I was simply mocking Marxist interpretations of education, I wasn't being serious.
Oops, sorry for being so brash in that case


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swanderfeild
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#17
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#17
Because as a society we luckily understood that kids aged 10 aren't capable either mentally or emotionally to decide their future.
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mysterytour
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Geeky_Reader)
i do agree with what you are saying, but to some extent it does help us. If we spent less time in school and spent more time doing, I don't know, whatever you do, would we learn much? I'm sure we would learn life skills and all that, but I doubt it that when you go to uni they are going to look at how you recovered from missing your favourite soap opera rather then your grades. However, an average student does have the same amount of anxiety as somebody in a psychiatric ward, and this is due to stress in lessons and as adults it will make us more-stress prone. So there are both pros and cons to this situation, but I think it depends on how we handle it.
Like I said, education is an empowering and worthwhile thing, it was just an interesting thought. As for when applying to university/jobs, you've missed my point. I was suggesting that people may want to live a simplistic/subsistence lifestyle which requires no formal education. For example, Native Americans may not want to go to school to attain diplomas and the like, they may want to live their historical and cultural lifestyle, like some Navajo and Chippewa people. Yet in the US, many of them are deprived of this due to state/county law. I think I'm just fantasizing of living a life like the Inuit people where your life isn't dictated by social norms, government and the corporate slog.
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Geeky_Reader
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#19
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#19
(Original post by mysterytour)
Like I said, education is an empowering and worthwhile thing, it was just an interesting thought. As for when applying to university/jobs, you've missed my point. I was suggesting that people may want to live a simplistic/subsistence lifestyle which requires no formal education. For example, Native Americans may not want to go to school to attain diplomas and the like, they may want to live their historical and cultural lifestyle, like some Navajo and Chippewa people. Yet in the US, many of them are deprived of this due to state/county law. I think I'm just fantasizing of living a life like the Inuit people where your life isn't dictated by social norms, government and the corporate slog.
Sorry for missing the point, and yes people may want to stick to culture rather than getting a job, and in US you do have to get a job as a result of the law, but I was just stating how education helps us. I do agree with you though
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interstitial
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Geeky_Reader)
in US you do have to get a job as a result of the law,
Do you have any sources to back this up? Can't say I've ever heard it before, and TBH it sounds like a very strange law to put in place.
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