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Original post by harryhamilton
Single gender schools seem to perform a lot better than mixed, this is a clear fact. Separation by race is purely racist and very backwards.


Statistics for this?

For all you know, it could turn out that in schools separated by race, people also do better. That still doesn't make it OK. Segregation is segregation, no matter what basis you choose for it.
Original post by Hanvyj
Erm, do you object to my wording?

I'll rephrase. Can you elaborate on why the idea of a white and black only school is ridiculous, yet think single sex schools should be allowed.

Said here:
Like I said, single sex schools perform far more better than mixed.
Original post by harryhamilton
Like I said, single sex schools perform far more better than mixed.


All white schools might perform better than all-black schools. I'm pretty sure, historically, they would have...
Original post by harryhamilton
No, if everyone should live an equal life, that means you should have an equal amount of money. The same way some parents want to pay for their children's education.


Oh dear..
It's about providing equal opportunities. Generally, you earn higher salaries because of your capabilities, although certain jobs pay less than they should in my opinion, e.g. teachers and so you earn money through merit. Private education is for those who are lucky enough to have parents who can pay for tuition fees.

Original post by Arithmeticae
Statistics for this?

For all you know, it could turn out that in schools separated by race, people also do better. That still doesn't make it OK. Segregation is segregation, no matter what basis you choose for it.


I don't see why single sex schools shouldn't be allowed; some parents may not want their children to be distracted by members of the opposite sex. We're not segregating sexes because of prejudice.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Arithmeticae
Statistics for this?

For all you know, it could turn out that in schools separated by race, people also do better. That still doesn't make it OK. Segregation is segregation, no matter what basis you choose for it.
If you take a look at the league table, it is evident that single sex schools achieve higher. Racial separation is purely segregation, splitting due to gender is entirely separation
Original post by Hanvyj
All white schools might perform better than all-black schools. I'm pretty sure, historically, they would have...
That is extremely racist.
Original post by harryhamilton
If you take a look at the league table, it is evident that single sex schools achieve higher. Racial separation is purely segregation, splitting due to gender is entirely separation


Why is it evident? There could be other factors at play, such as the teachers at the school or how much money they have. Until I see a study that provides concrete evidence for this, I can't believe it.

What do you think the difference between the two is?
Original post by harryhamilton
That is extremely racist.


No, it's not. Socio-economic factors.
Original post by Arithmeticae
Why is it evident? There could be other factors at play, such as the teachers at the school or how much money they have. Until I see a study that provides concrete evidence for this, I can't believe it.

What do you think the difference between the two is?
I didn't randomly make it up, I suggest you take a look at the league table. Most of the top schools are single sex grammar schools. Also, some may hate the idea of separation due to gender and I completely understand that.
Original post by yl95
No, it's not. Socio-economic factors.
It is racist and I don't even need to explain why.
Original post by Hanvyj
All white schools might perform better than all-black schools. I'm pretty sure, historically, they would have...
Historically they would have?
Original post by harryhamilton
I didn't randomly make it up, I suggest you take a look at the league table. Most of the top schools are single sex grammar schools. Also, some may hate the idea of separation due to gender and I completely understand that.


League tables don't provide straight evidence for/against gender separation simply because there's other factors involved. The only way to truly check it is to have some trial schools with the same conditions, just with one being boys only, one being girls only and the other being mixed.

But what's the difference between segregation and separation then?
Original post by Arithmeticae
League tables don't provide straight evidence for/against gender separation simply because there's other factors involved. The only way to truly check it is to have some trial schools with the same conditions, just with one being boys only, one being girls only and the other being mixed.

But what's the difference between segregation and separation then?
Segregation is the isolation of a social groups e.g. race by the means of a policy and separation is parting individuals
Original post by harryhamilton
I didn't randomly make it up, I suggest you take a look at the league table. Most of the top schools are single sex grammar schools. Also, some may hate the idea of separation due to gender and I completely understand that.


Correlation =/ causation

Original post by harryhamilton
It is racist and I don't even need to explain why.


Black families tend to earn lower in average which is a factor.
http://www.poverty.org.uk/06/index.shtml?
50% of Black Africans live in low income households - children growing up in low-income households tend to have lower attainment.
Original post by harryhamilton
Personally, I think that the way schools are functioning are fine, however the only issue is that some schools need to improve the facilities they provide and the teaching quality. If there was only one kind of school, that would only result in chaos and disagreements.

I wholeheartedly agree on the teaching quality point but not necessarily on your point about facilities. I went to a school that benefited from a new building, that cost around £25 million, and yet my school was placed under special measures by OFSTED. The school only started to improve when the leadership team was replaced with that of a very successful school in my region. Despite having some of the best facilities of a state school in this country only effective leadership started to turn things and I suspect this may be the case for many other schools.
Original post by harryhamilton
Segregation is the isolation of groups e.g. race by the means of a policy and separation is parting individuals


In both situations, you are parting groups of people.

There's no social isolation involved at all, people are free to talk to others and make friends if they want to.
Original post by yl95
Correlation =/ causation



Black families tend to earn lower in average which is a factor.
http://www.poverty.org.uk/06/index.shtml?
50% of Black Africans live in low income households - children growing up in low-income households tend to have lower attainment.
So you think that all white schools achieve better than black schools? How can you make such judgement when it does not exist? Having a low income doesn't determine how well you would do in school. I think it's vague and racist.
Original post by Arithmeticae
In both situations, you are parting groups of people.

There's no social isolation involved at all, people are free to talk to others and make friends if they want to.
When segregating due to race, there is definitely going to be a form of social isolation.
Original post by harryhamilton
So you think that all white schools achieve better than black schools? How can you make such judgement when it does not exist? Having a low income doesn't determine how well you would do in school. I think it's vague and racist.


Obviously we mean on average.
I doubt there are any all black schools that exist now - the only example I can think of is in the US and obviously achievement would have been lower. Hypothetically speaking, they probably would.
Did I suggest causation? No. Studies of relationships between socio-economic factors and attainment at school have been done and have given those results. I don't make facts up.
Dont hate private school, hate the things associated with private school.

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