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Reply 620
Original post by Elivercury
The government has stated numerous times in the past that they want "all schools to be excellent schools, not a limited number that only take the brightest" (paraphrased). Grammar schools and private schools are both independent, as I previously stated, being "academies" does not change this. You also seem to be under the impression that grammar/private is binary, when is isn't. Plenty of schools operate with a bit of both.


the government may want that but they're not closing any down. So what you have said is still all rubbish.
Original post by Elivercury
Regarding parental support, you are correct, plenty of state students also get parental support and plenty of state students also do well. Are you seriously going to try and tell me the levels of parental support are the same in a state school where half the parents view it as no more than day care for their children, are the same as those in a private school that parents are paying through the nose to put their children into? If so I have no further interest debating the topic with you as you are clearly high on something.
I'm still not sure how this is relevant. A private school kid receives better education within their school compared to a state school kid. Period.Oh please, you said the poor needed to pay for some grammar schools, i think you're the one who is mentally deranged.
Original post by Elivercury
The point of grammar schools vs state schools is that funnily enough if you have a bright kid they will do well, if you have a stupid kid, they won't do as well. Teaching isn't a magic bullet, it can only work to the level of the student.If you have school A, full of bright, gifted children who receive terrible teaching but all get high grades because of their ability, and school B which has great teaching but dense kids who get terrible grades, which school would you say has better teaching? This is obviously a completely made up and extreme example, but ultimately how good the teaching is at a school is determined by the grades the children achieve. If you have more bright kids the school's grades are going to be higher, this is just a given.

That's my point. If schools are to be selective, it must do so by grounds of intelligence.
Original post by Elivercury
If you have school A, full of bright, gifted children who receive terrible teaching but all get high grades because of their ability, and school B which has great teaching but dense kids who get terrible grades, which school would you say has better teaching? This is obviously a completely made up and extreme example, but ultimately how good the teaching is at a school is determined by the grades the children achieve. If you have more bright kids the school's grades are going to be higher, this is just a given.
Yes I agree. I never disputed that.
Why do people hate private schools?

Um maybe because it gives certain kids from higher income families an advantage in life? It's not just the standard of teaching but also the social setting. Private schools tend to champion high achievements whereas in state schools being studious is often seen as a negative within the student circles. I go to a state school and see this everyday.

I wish I went to a private school or a nice grammar school (like 70% of TSR) perhaps I would've done better at my GSCEs. I still have my A levels left and did do well at AS but I know i have no chances of getting into Oxford or any of the other top 5 universities.


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Original post by Fr3dg
Im not saying that people who are homeschooled are not socially awkward, but if they are, they can be some of the cleverest people. Tbh where i live (Harrogate), the people who attend the local, non-boarding, publci school, are exactly the same as the people who attend the comprehensive schools, financially and socially. ive been in the comprehensive system my whole life, but because of the way my parents have introduced education to me, making me regard it as something fun and interesting, though i am constantly learning, i would not say that i have worked hard for where i am. i think this would be similar for someone who goes to a public school. my bestfriend for example, who attends a boarding school as his parents work abroad, has a long school day, where they have a set homework time after school, but seem to be enticed to do their own study. Indeed it is encouraged to persue ectracurricular academia, as some of the teachers whom i conversed with at interviews for different school told me. In addition, despite being offered places at boarding schools, i still do, and can see why others, would feel jealous of the better experiences these kids have than the rest of us, solely based on the families they have been born into. saying thta, i am incredibly happy with how my education has worked out too.



There are no public schools in Harrogate..???
Because most people in society seemed to hate those 'higher up' than them.
Original post by drogon
the government may want that but they're not closing any down. So what you have said is still all rubbish.
I'm still not sure how this is relevant. A private school kid receives better education within their school compared to a state school kid. Period.Oh please, you said the poor needed to pay for some grammar schools, i think you're the one who is mentally deranged.

That's my point. If schools are to be selective, it must do so by grounds of intelligence.
Yes I agree. I never disputed that.


I never said they've closed any down, I said they've scrapped them, i.e. they've stopped new ones from existing. I also said many have converted (which they have). In fact there was a huge uproar recently when they allowed an existing grammar school to open a second campus.

My point is that I'm not entirely convinced the teaching at private/grammar schools is as superior as you are making out. The benefits they receive primarily relate to more engaged parents, less overworked teachers and more academically focused colleagues. Likewise they tend to be filled by those who are more intelligent than the average state school child. All of these will contribute towards superior grades/reputation at the school, and given grades are how we judge teaching ability this gives an inflated sense of superior teaching at private/grammar schools. Likewise there are other external factors such as parents connections and the like.

Where have I said the poor need to pay to attend grammar schools? I stated that you consider grammar/private schools to be a binary system where they either only take the most intelligent or they only take those who pay. In reality the majority work in a hybrid manner where the brightest do not pay (like a grammar school) and those who are not bright do pay (like a private school). If your grammar school has no funded options of entry I would say it is in the minority. Likewise there are private only schools where there are no scholarships, but these are also in the minority.
Original post by grassntai
Why do people hate private schools?

Um maybe because it gives certain kids from higher income families an advantage in life? It's not just the standard of teaching but also the social setting. Private schools tend to champion high achievements whereas in state schools being studious is often seen as a negative within the student circles. I go to a state school and see this everyday.

I wish I went to a private school or a nice grammar school (like 70% of TSR) perhaps I would've done better at my GSCEs. I still have my A levels left and did do well at AS but I know i have no chances of getting into Oxford or any of the other top 5 universities.


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I went to state school for the majority of my school career, and then got a scholarship to private school (having got 12A*s at GCSE) It is possible to do well wherever you go if you put the work in, and if you have the talent then there are scholarships available
Original post by Leafyisqueer
I go to private school, and live in a councill house my mum is a housewife and dad is a black cab driver. Im the poorest at my school and only got in because i got a scholarship and worked my ass off. Im not going to lie private school kids are pricks. But thats some of them. Also getting A*'s still requires work, but i dont know how much compared to a public school.


I fully agree with you, I went to a private school and live in a council flat (my parents pay mortgage and aren't on benefits, it's because they immigrated) my dad is a cloud architect (computers) and my mum works at a nursery. There were plenty of kids that were richer and a few that were annoying (only one) but because we were together for 5 years (i must be lucky too) we all treated each other as equals, no snobbiness only *****ness that comes within girls generally. I had to work my arse off at my school because some of the teachers sucked and didn't care enough, my currents school which is public is great, very acedemic and the teachers care so much and I feel it and j get better grades along with my hard work. So private school with teachers that are in it for the money and don't care or public school with teachers that care and nurture you, yet if you go to that private school with bad teachers you are still seen as having advantage 🙄🙄🙄 why?
Original post by Seahorse1209
I went to state school for the majority of my school career, and then got a scholarship to private school (having got 12A*s at GCSE) It is possible to do well wherever you go if you put the work in, and if you have the talent then there are scholarships available


Yes absolutely!!
Original post by JohnGreek
I think that it's because quite a few people tend to class all state and private schools into two big categories, where state school = full of chavs, no one cares about you, no networking etc, while private school = everything is perfect and is laid out for you on a plate.

Going to a private school does not automatically guarantee better teaching or grades (although the facilities and networking tend to be better). I think that people are taking their stereotypical impressions of the top 100 "public schools" and applying them to the other thousands of private schools in the country.


I agree with some parts of what you say, at my last school our English teacher would force us to speak "properly" even though i naturally did so because of my parents, I notice there is a difference but at my current school My form tutor who was a lawyer but now a German teacher has many contacts and has given many of my friends work experience and I planning to get me one at a bank. It's all up to circumstances
Original post by elizziebabs
I agree with some parts of what you say, at my last school our English teacher would force us to speak "properly" even though i naturally did so because of my parents, I notice there is a difference but at my current school My form tutor who was a lawyer but now a German teacher has many contacts and has given many of my friends work experience and I planning to get me one at a bank. It's all up to circumstances


That's very true, my wife is always parachuting me or our friends in to inform her pupils about assorted industries and options available to them.

Of course that's a result of the teacher's own networking, so I don't know if it can be specifically attributed to the schools?
Dunno about private but grammar schools aren't really that special. Don't worry if you guys don't attend one. :smile:
Those people saying that all people who go to private schools are snobby rich kids are completely wrong. I went to a private primary school from Year 4 to Year 6 and I can say that this was certainly not the case for me. I didn't turn into someone who held a status for having a supposedly better form of education and I am certainly not rich either (I belong to a lower middle class.. I wonder how we even managed to afford the fees). Though literally the rest of my class were pretty well-off.. lol maybe that's why all the parents weren't particularly fond of mine :tongue:
Reply 632
It depends on the environment that the private school provides, I attend a private school, and you get the occasional snotty kids, but on the whole it's pretty lovely. That may be because my private school is smaller and therefore there's a family type of atmosphere, for instance, my friend and I finished an exam and told our teacher how it went, the utter joy she gets from knowing we did well, is really quite touching. I think it's rather unfair to suggest all private schools are the same, but I can understand where the stereotypes come from. :smile: x
Reply 633
Because it give's people an unfair advantage in life, especially when you consider how bad regular schools in the UK are. I don't think they should be banned, but something needs to be done to stop the riff-raff dragging down everyone else at comprehensive schools. Bringing back grammar schools would probably help.
Original post by Seahorse1209
I went to state school for the majority of my school career, and then got a scholarship to private school (having got 12A*s at GCSE) It is possible to do well wherever you go if you put the work in, and if you have the talent then there are scholarships available


Do you think everyone has the cultural capital to be aware or know how to apply for scholarships? It's not even just working hard, it's the social environment you're in. Who you surround yourself with dictates the person you often become without you even noticing.

I was bullied and harassed during my GCSE years and as a result skipped a lot of my lessons to avoid certain students, and then started mixing with the wrong pupils (majority of the students in my school didn't even have aspirations to go to university).

Now I did well my AS results after moving to a different school but if anything my results evidence the impact the type of school you go to, can have on your results e.g. I got an A in both a level History and English and got C's in them at GCSE. Now sure I can still get offers from great UNI's like Nottingham and Birmingham but Oxford/LSE/UCL? You can forget it because the exams I did when I was 16 influences their admission rates. It's unfair but I just have to deal with the cards life has given me.


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Reply 635
Original post by xJARSx
There are no public schools in Harrogate..???


there are a few public primaries, and a primary/secondary, with boarding, called Ashville College
Original post by Gherk
Because it give's people an unfair advantage in life, especially when you consider how bad regular schools in the UK are. I don't think they should be banned, but something needs to be done to stop the riff-raff dragging down everyone else at comprehensive schools. Bringing back grammar schools would probably help.


Grammar schools exist, there are 164 in England


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Reply 637
Original post by Underscore__
Grammar schools exist, there are 164 in England


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That's nowhere near enough. There used to be more.
Original post by Gherk
That's nowhere near enough. There used to be more.


Well that means they can be more elite surely? I think by increasing grammar schools you'll effectively be writing of all of the kids who don't get into grammar/public school


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Original post by Fr3dg
there are a few public primaries, and a primary/secondary, with boarding, called Ashville College




Not a public school? You realise there is a difference between a public school and a comprehensive right?

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