Does the EU election result mean we can leave the EU?

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BlackLipBastard
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Excuse my lack of political knowledge, but will UKIP be able to get the UK out of the EU after winning this European Election without having to win the general election next year ?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by BlackLip*******)
Excuse my lack of political knowledge, but will UKIP be able to get the UK out of the EU after winning this European Election without having to win the general election next year ?
No they can't.

It's actually Ukip's policy not to even engage in the European Parliament so they won't even fight for reform.
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BlackLipBastard
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(Original post by Rakas21)
No they can't.

It's actually Ukip's policy not to even engage in the European Parliament so they won't even fight for reform.
Oh damn, I like the idea of them trying to take us out the EU but despise the party as a whole due to these racist/homophobic comments coming from them.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by BlackLip*******)
Oh damn, I like the idea of them trying to take us out the EU but despise the party as a whole due to these racist/homophobic comments coming from them.
The Tory MEP's are mostly as Euro-skeptic but they actually engage and try to change the legislation at its various stages. Indeed if the EP had more power, they'd have a bigger chance of being able to change a bill or two.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by BlackLip*******)
Excuse my lack of political knowledge, but will UKIP be able to get the UK out of the EU after winning this European Election without having to win the general election next year ?
Not directly, but it is widely thought that they will do so by proxy due to causing a shift in the position of the Conservative Party.

(Original post by Rakas21)
No they can't.

It's actually Ukip's policy not to even engage in the European Parliament so they won't even fight for reform.
That's not quite right. It's UKIP's policy not to ceade any power to the European Parliament or engage with rubber stamping policy. They do of course regularly vote against policy, and regularly make floor speeches.

Reform must be imposed on the Parliament by the member states however, so you're right that there isn't much that they can do from within (other than complain loudly).

(Original post by SHallowvale)
As others have said: UKIP cannot see the UK leave the European Union by being in the European Parliament. So much for ''No to a European Superstate''.
This result is important domestically, as well you know, by virtue of the pressure on the Conservative Party. It very much is a vote against a European Superstate.
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PGtips
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What would happen if people voted UKIP in and then suddenly changed their minds on the EU and voted No to leaving the EU in the referendum?

They focus on EU and immigration for a reason, it's because the rest of their policies are ****e or non existent.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by PGtips)
What would happen if people voted UKIP in and then suddenly changed their minds on the EU and voted No to leaving the EU in the referendum?

They focus on EU and immigration for a reason, it's because the rest of their policies are ****e or non existent.
The same thing as would happen is any other party went rogue?

In theory we'd have to hope that the Monarch dissolved parliament.
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PGtips
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(Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
The same thing as would happen is any other party went rogue?

In theory we'd have to hope that the Monarch dissolved parliament.
Sorry if you misinterpreted my post, what I was meaning to say was what if the population voted against leaving the EU in the referendum, after UKIP gained power.
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Asciant
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(Original post by PGtips)
Sorry if you misinterpreted my post, what I was meaning to say was what if the population voted against leaving the EU in the referendum, after UKIP gained power.
If UKIP gain power there won't be a referendum, it will just be 'lol cya Europe'
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by PGtips)
Sorry if you misinterpreted my post, what I was meaning to say was what if the population voted against leaving the EU in the referendum, after UKIP gained power.
If UKIP formed a government, which will not happen soon, I doubt they would hold a referendum. They would just get us out of the EU - that is the only thing they really care about. They are a single issue protest party, a one trick pony and nothing else.
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PGtips
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(Original post by Asciant)
If UKIP gain power there won't be a referendum, it will just be 'lol cya Europe'
But according to their policies, they will hold a referendum on the EU. If they just go ahead and get the UK out of the EU with no input from the public, then that would be a massive fail.
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Asciant
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(Original post by PGtips)
But according to their policies, they will hold a referendum on the EU. If they just go ahead and get the UK out of the EU with no input from the public, then that would be a massive fail.
Oh, I didn't know they would hold a referendum. However, if they were in power in the first place it is near certain it would result in us leaving Europe. If not then that would just be odd.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by PGtips)
Sorry if you misinterpreted my post, what I was meaning to say was what if the population voted against leaving the EU in the referendum, after UKIP gained power.
Oh right.

Well if UKIP gained power they would take their election as a mandate to pull out - no need for a referendum.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
Oh right.

Well if UKIP gained power they would take their election as a mandate to pull out - no need for a referendum.
If that is true, one assumes that if Labour win next year's election, UKIP will take that as a mandate to stay in the EU and they will drop the matter?
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
If that is true, one assumes that if Labour win next year's election, UKIP will take that as a mandate to stay in the EU and they will drop the matter?
No, as that's clearly not how it works?

Defeated parties don't just adopt the policies of the victor. They provide choice in future elections.

The winning party considers itself to have a mandate to perform its manifesto. In the case you describe, as Labour doesn't propose to pull out the EU it doesn't have a mandate to pull out of the EU. Similarly, as it doesn't propose closer union, it doesn't have a mandate to further integrate.

Do you see how it works now? A mandate is claimed based on positions laid out before election.

UKIP campaigns on Europe therefore could claim a mandate to pull out.
Labour doesn't, and therefore has no mandate either way.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
No, as that's clearly not how it works?

Defeated parties don't just adopt the policies of the victor. They provide choice in future elections.

The winning party considers itself to have a mandate to perform its manifesto. In the case you describe, as Labour doesn't propose to pull out the EU it doesn't have a mandate to pull out of the EU. Similarly, as it doesn't propose closer union, it doesn't have a mandate to further integrate.

Do you see how it works now? A mandate is claimed based on positions laid out before election.

UKIP campaigns on Europe therefore could claim a mandate to pull out.
Labour doesn't, and therefore has no mandate either way.
Yes I understand quite well how it works, thank you.

Labour has made its position regarding Europe very clear. There will be no referendum unless there comes a point where the UK stands to hand more powers over to the EU.

The person I quoted said that because UKIP are very clearly anti EU, if they were voted into power, they would claim that they have a mandate to leave the EU without further consultation of the public.

It follows, then, that Labour gaining power would have a similar effect. It would be a clear sign that people are happy to for the UK to maintain its current relationship with the EU.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
Yes I understand quite well how it works, thank you.

Labour has made its position regarding Europe very clear. There will be no referendum unless there comes a point where the UK stands to hand more powers over to the EU.

The person I quoted said that because UKIP are very clearly anti EU, if they were voted into power, they would claim that they have a mandate to leave the EU without further consultation of the public.

It follows, then, that Labour gaining power would have a similar effect. It would be a clear sign that people are happy to for the UK to maintain its current relationship with the EU.
Having a clear position on something and campaigning on the basis of something are very different things. What you say does not follow, as Labour does not campaign on the issue of the EU.

If Lib Dems were to get in then yes, as the do campaign on behalf of the EU. But for Labour, it is not so.
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