Why do people dislike Michael Gove so much?
I see a lot of anti-Gove posts here, and read the same sentiments in parts of the media (and a lot of moaning by teachers on Question Time lately).
I'm not really clued up on school education, but from what I've read he basically wants to make subjects more rigorous and combat grade inflation - so he's making the science subjects more mathsy and trying to keep us closer to international standards of education. I find those very reasonable - in fact, I agree strongly with both. He's also discouraged repeated retakes and early GCSE entries that schools encourage simply to boost their own league table standings. And from what I've read, free schools are generally performing really well and are massively in demand by parents relative to normal state schools.
I'm a little dubious about his focus on British history and British literature, but I'm not sure that's a reason to condemn all his other policies. One of my mates is a secondary school teacher and he seems pretty happy with the changes too.
So why do people think he's such a prat? Is there something I'm missing?
I'm not really clued up on school education, but from what I've read he basically wants to make subjects more rigorous and combat grade inflation - so he's making the science subjects more mathsy and trying to keep us closer to international standards of education. I find those very reasonable - in fact, I agree strongly with both. He's also discouraged repeated retakes and early GCSE entries that schools encourage simply to boost their own league table standings. And from what I've read, free schools are generally performing really well and are massively in demand by parents relative to normal state schools.
I'm a little dubious about his focus on British history and British literature, but I'm not sure that's a reason to condemn all his other policies. One of my mates is a secondary school teacher and he seems pretty happy with the changes too.
So why do people think he's such a prat? Is there something I'm missing?
Scroll to see replies
My problem with Gove is that I agree with almost all of the problems he identifies with education, but disagree with what he does to change it. I agree exams should become more rigorous, but doing so in the middle of an exam year (so January exams were significantly easier than June ones) was ridiculous. Similarly, I agree with the principle of paying teachers on the basis of their ability, but there is no way to measure this. His solution - to give the power to headteacher's - just means that those schools with poor funding will hold down the pay of good teachers (who otherwise were guaranteed pay scale increases for the first six years on the job).
He also seems to be trying to inject a peculiar nationalism into the curriculum, and is a proponent of old school teaching methods which have been shown not to work (I.E. rote learning). These are things which should be left to people who have experience in the field, not government ministers.
He also seems to be trying to inject a peculiar nationalism into the curriculum, and is a proponent of old school teaching methods which have been shown not to work (I.E. rote learning). These are things which should be left to people who have experience in the field, not government ministers.
Original post by ClickItBack
And from what I've read, free schools are generally performing really well and are massively in demand by parents relative to normal state schools.
That shows how successful carefully crafted media management can be. Free Schools are a disaster. Their failure rate is three times that of other state schools and, with a few notable exceptions, they are desperately unpopular. Propaganda placed in papers that suggested otherwise counted parents who had included a Free School as their SIXTH choice school!
(edited 9 years ago)
He doesn't know what he's doing. It's true that the things you've mentioned are issues with the education system, but the way Gove is trying to tackle them is far from ideal.
Gove is amazing
Original post by ClickItBack
Do you have a source for those claims? I'll admit I don't have a source for what I said either, I'm pretty much going off off last week's QT :P (where I may add the Labour rep didn't contradict those statistics . . .).
Also I wonder if it's possible for both you and them to be right. Perhaps free schools are more variable in performance, so even though they do indeed do better on average, they also have a much higher failure rate?
Also I wonder if it's possible for both you and them to be right. Perhaps free schools are more variable in performance, so even though they do indeed do better on average, they also have a much higher failure rate?
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/apr/29/free-schools-ofsted-failure-rate-higher-state
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/09/half-of-new-primary-free-schools-fail-to-fill-places
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/70-per-cent-of-free-schools-not-filled-two-years-after-opening-labour-claims-9278569.html
http://antiacademies.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/AAA_free-schools_briefing_apr2014.pdf
(edited 9 years ago)
I dislike any educational minister, because they're all part of the same regime to produce the dull, unthinking, unimaginative corporate drones of the future through the machine that is currently state education. It's like that here and in the US particularly. They cannot afford to create inquisitive, intelligent, freethinking individuals because the government-corporate empire will collapse all too soon. They have to make us ripe for being submissive, foolish, subservient and easily distracted through consumerism and sensationalism. We have to be people who will spend our lives slaving away for an exploitative master but just accept that "this is just how life is", and then come back home exhausted to stare catatonically at the latest episode of Eastenders or laugh emptily at the latest gimmick on Britain's Got Talent. **** all educational ministers.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Abstraction
I dislike any educational minister, because they're all part of the same regime to produce the dull, unthinking, unimaginative corporate drones of the future through the machine that is currently state education. It's like that here and in the US particularly. They cannot afford to create inquisitive, intelligent, freethinking individuals because the government-corporate empire will collapse all too soon. They have to make us ripe for being submissive, foolish, subservient and easily distracted through consumerism and sensationalism. We have to be people who will spend our lives slaving away for an exploitative master but just accept that "this is just how life is", and then come back home exhausted to stare catatonically at the latest episode of Eastenders or laugh emptily at the latest gimmick on Britain's Got Talent. **** all educational ministers.
infowars.com
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by bertstare
infowars.com
Lol I actually watched an episode of Alex Jones' show (it had Chris Hedges in it). I'm not exactly sure what to think of the guy, he's definitely a hardcore constitutionalist but under the deep, throaty voice and aggressive air, he seems to know what's up.
Essentially, the man's clearly never taught anything, or even watched anybody teach anything, or even spent any real amount of time in a non-fee-paying school, and clearly has no clue what he's talking about, and yet he continually ignores what the people that actually do know what they're talking about say; preferring to continue making the education system even more outdated and divorced from reality (or, for that matter, from actual education) than it already is.
Original post by ClickItBack
I see a lot of anti-Gove posts here, and read the same sentiments in parts of the media (and a lot of moaning by teachers on Question Time lately).
I'm not really clued up on school education, but from what I've read he basically wants to make subjects more rigorous and combat grade inflation - so he's making the science subjects more mathsy and trying to keep us closer to international standards of education. I find those very reasonable - in fact, I agree strongly with both. He's also discouraged repeated retakes and early GCSE entries that schools encourage simply to boost their own league table standings. And from what I've read, free schools are generally performing really well and are massively in demand by parents relative to normal state schools.
I'm a little dubious about his focus on British history and British literature, but I'm not sure that's a reason to condemn all his other policies. One of my mates is a secondary school teacher and he seems pretty happy with the changes too.
So why do people think he's such a prat? Is there something I'm missing?
I'm not really clued up on school education, but from what I've read he basically wants to make subjects more rigorous and combat grade inflation - so he's making the science subjects more mathsy and trying to keep us closer to international standards of education. I find those very reasonable - in fact, I agree strongly with both. He's also discouraged repeated retakes and early GCSE entries that schools encourage simply to boost their own league table standings. And from what I've read, free schools are generally performing really well and are massively in demand by parents relative to normal state schools.
I'm a little dubious about his focus on British history and British literature, but I'm not sure that's a reason to condemn all his other policies. One of my mates is a secondary school teacher and he seems pretty happy with the changes too.
So why do people think he's such a prat? Is there something I'm missing?
Some of Gove's opponents simply hate him because he is a Tory. He comes in for flack simply because he is the education secretary so he is the minister who is noticed by the young. If he went off to be Minister of Agriculture, they would forget about him and start hating the next Tory education secretary. That hatred is visceral and frankly there is nothing that can be done about it.
Secondly he has an annoying personal manner as a politician. Some politicians are warm and cuddly and some aren't. Gove isn't.
Some, particularly some teachers, hate Gove because of policies that are more or less common to any likely education secretary: toughened up standards; getting rid of national pay bargaining; giving more authority to management to hire and fire. Most politicians of all parties realise that the teaching profession is somewhere where poor performance is tolerated and it is also cover for professional agitators. In many cases poor teachers have a less stressful time than good ones. If you care about outcomes, the pressure from government, parents, governors and others can be unrelenting. If you are a class warrior or if you are just ineffective with low expectations, it just washes over you.
However, there are some factors that are specific to Gove, Although some people describe him as wishing to return to the 1950s that isn't actually true. He wishes to return to the 1980s. Gove had a very good educational experience in both state and independent schools in a booming city in Scotland in the 1970s and 1980s. What he is trying to do is recreate the educational experience he had, aimed at bright lower middle class kids. With the exception of free schools, virtually all of his policies are geared to that end.
The problem is that is that he views the 1980s through rose tinted spectacles. The government of the day and the education secretaries of the day; Keith Joseph, Ken Clarke, Ken Baker, John Patten and John MacGregor whose views ranged across the right/left spectrum of Tory politics were extremely unhappy about the then education system and particularly about the number of children who were gaining nothing from it. Gove, as a pupil, didn't see any of this and now, is simply blanking the criticisms of what he wants to go back to.
A year or so ago, department of education insiders floated a deniable idea of Gove wanting to return to O levels. It was quickly stopped by the Liberals. GCSEs were introduced not under some lefty plot but by Keith Joseph, probably the most economically right wing free market cabinet minister this country has ever known. He did this because the previous O Level/CSE system was producing about a quarter of kids with not one CSE to their name and and only a small proportion of kids with any worthwhile qualifications in a world where the demand for unskilled industrial labour was falling like a stone.
Finally there is his one novelty; free schools. Although new, they also hanker back to an earlier age of self-help. He is sinking enormous sums of money into creating schools where they are not needed and whilst he thinks that the creators of these schools are motivated by altruism, very few are. There are those with an ideological objective, and we have seen the problems with the Islamic school in Derby. Others just want to get their hands of the sweetie jar of public money with minimal oversight. Yet others, with a bone to pick regarding their child's education, will have an interest that lasts no longer than their child's leaving do. Money that needs to go into areas which are short of school places isn't getting there because that isn't where the people wanting to set up free schools live.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
An Internet posting that would grace a finals paper
I got a pretty good education from the state. And I'm getting a pretty good supplementary education from you, and that also for free. Nice one.
One recent example is that Michael Gove is removing Of Mice and Men from English GCSE because he 'doesn't like it'. This is an absolutely appalling reason to remove an entire text from the curriculum (surely he should be consulting teachers and such?).
PS. As a whole, I don't really like the Education Minister anyway, because I feel that the position should be given to someone with teaching experience. So I guess I dislike Gove more because he isn't an ex teacher.
PS. As a whole, I don't really like the Education Minister anyway, because I feel that the position should be given to someone with teaching experience. So I guess I dislike Gove more because he isn't an ex teacher.
The issue with free schools is that they can ignore the national curriculum entirely and can be set up by any private company or charity. This is very problematic as the amount of free schools that are nothing but covert faith schools is abhorrent. OFCOM grades are meaning btw as everyone knows when they are happening and alter their lesson plans accordingly. Any school that claims to have a 'christian ethos' must be avoided, especially if you don't want your children to end up as homophobic and unwilling to question authority.
Original post by llamaspoon
One recent example is that Michael Gove is removing Of Mice and Men from English GCSE because he 'doesn't like it'. This is an absolutely appalling reason to remove an entire text from the curriculum (surely he should be consulting teachers and such?).
PS. As a whole, I don't really like the Education Minister anyway, because I feel that the position should be given to someone with teaching experience. So I guess I dislike Gove more because he isn't an ex teacher.
PS. As a whole, I don't really like the Education Minister anyway, because I feel that the position should be given to someone with teaching experience. So I guess I dislike Gove more because he isn't an ex teacher.
He has put out a denial about this. I am not sure it is a convincing denial because if you fill the curriculum with lots of other things then, everything that is not required becomes crowded out.
However, because it does not reflect well on government policy, he has not restated his original point which is actually a valid one. 80% of all GCSE students in the country were studying this book.
In the good old days after which he hankers there were many exam boards each of these ran many syllabuses and therefore for English there were many set books.
What has happened is that there has been a huge reduction in boards and syllabuses. Gove has wanted to push this further because of concern that schools have been shopping around for the easiest board.
However schools also shop around for the "best" books. Of Mice and Men ticks a lot of boxes. It is short. It is written in 20th century English and is therefore more accessible than books written in 19th century English. It is "decent"; the swearing is modest and there is virtually no sex. Its political incorrectness is within the bounds of classroom discussion. Race is treated as a serious subject throughout. It would be a lot harder to use a book where all of the protagonists simply assume but do not discuss the same un-PC approach to something. It says something to both boys and girls; many of Jane Austen's men and Charles Dickens' women are made of cardboard. It is exotic. Like Gulliver's Travel's, it allows contemporary issues to be examined without getting too close to home. It is also on the syllabus every year which is important when schools have to buy the texts.
The result is schools pile in and pick it in preference to other books.
Original post by JamJam87
Basically,
Wait!
Have you seen his face??????
Wait!
Have you seen his face??????
He looks like he's prepubescent and middle aged at the same time, it scares me.
Michael Gove has no really knowledge or experience of the education system in the UK and bases all this thoughts and opinions on his own narrow experience. He also has surrounded himself with people who are similarly minded.
He there is trying to impose an outdated and incorrect view of what is 'good' for education on a system where it will not work. It is against all thoughts on best practice, academic research and teaching and learning models. He ignores all this for his own views and tries to rubbish opponents, not through legitimate discussion of the merits of different ideas, but through name calling.
He also had created an intimidatory and bullying culture within the Department for Education which has spectacuarly lowered moral there. At the same time he's laid off thousands of staff while increasing their work load by bringing thousands of extra schools under the direct control of the department for education.
He's over-stepped the mark on exam and curriculum control by ignoring what experts he's employed to review things and instead imposing his own views and thoughts on what should be taught and how it's taught. He also tries to raise teaching standards by telling teachers how rubbish and uncommitted they are, claiming they don't work enough hours or care enough about their students, when the reality is they work crazy hours, never manage to finish their work and do care for their students, but never have enough time due to paper work, jumping through hoops and constant meddling from politicians (like Gove) in how they do their job.
Overall he's incompetent, out of touch and clueless as to what education in this country needs. The simple answer is that it's doesn't need Gove. The sooner he's gone, the better.
He there is trying to impose an outdated and incorrect view of what is 'good' for education on a system where it will not work. It is against all thoughts on best practice, academic research and teaching and learning models. He ignores all this for his own views and tries to rubbish opponents, not through legitimate discussion of the merits of different ideas, but through name calling.
He also had created an intimidatory and bullying culture within the Department for Education which has spectacuarly lowered moral there. At the same time he's laid off thousands of staff while increasing their work load by bringing thousands of extra schools under the direct control of the department for education.
He's over-stepped the mark on exam and curriculum control by ignoring what experts he's employed to review things and instead imposing his own views and thoughts on what should be taught and how it's taught. He also tries to raise teaching standards by telling teachers how rubbish and uncommitted they are, claiming they don't work enough hours or care enough about their students, when the reality is they work crazy hours, never manage to finish their work and do care for their students, but never have enough time due to paper work, jumping through hoops and constant meddling from politicians (like Gove) in how they do their job.
Overall he's incompetent, out of touch and clueless as to what education in this country needs. The simple answer is that it's doesn't need Gove. The sooner he's gone, the better.
His policies are reasonable and make sense, but the way he chooses to implement them is idiotic.
Gove is disliked because he's an education secretary who has shown nothing but contempt towards the teaching profession. He ignores teachers where ever possible and when they do manage to get some input if they disagree with him they are just dismissed as raging Marxists.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Why is there a dinosaur in my garden?
- 3 artists you love, 3 you dont like
- BBC: Tory donor accused of racist remarks about Diane Abbott
- If you were the schools minister, what would you do?
- What's the most overrated Christmas song?
- Psychology with BBB
- Woodhouse or St Michaels?
- St. Michael's Catholic Grammar for Sixth Form
- my mum hates my boyfriend …
- TSR emojis are so silly
- UK school choice
- Is this a bad age gap?
- Bad experiences with Arden University
- Kallisto's Saturday Question: Favorite Cities II
- taking a levels I don't like?
- What happened to Waterloo Road?
- Boyfriend doubts are getting too much! Why do I think this?
- Diversity in schools (ethnic)
- Is there anyone less funny than Miranda Hart?
- Henrietta Barnett sixth form or Dame Alice Owens
Latest
Trending
Last reply 2 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 2 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 2 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 2 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
