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Feminists shut down Mens' Rights event

A Mens' Rights event at a Canadian university was shut down after a group of feminists pulled a fire alarm to prevent it from proceeding. Outside the event, the men were harangued by angry, almost-violent women intent on shouting them down.

[video="youtube;GO_X4DkwA_Q"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q[/video]

I abhor this kind of oppressive behaviour. I must say, however, that I do not agree with the conclusions that are reached by the kind of "Mens' Rights" advocates such as the OP in this thread

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2698686

It concerns me that some men's rights activists have taken to asserting that the social and medical progress (the pill and contraceptives, no-fault divorce, women in the workforce) should be rolled back (reforms that freed men as much as they freed women).

They also seem to be calling for a suffocatingly narrow conception of masculinity that is as oppressive to men as it is to women, as the OP also posts pictures of men he sees as too feminine, and proposing that the only acceptable behaviour for a male is to go to work while their female partner stays at home. Surely a men's rights movement should advocate the right of males to be free from opressive gender stereotypes, whether that involves minimising violence against men or demanding that men conform to a particular ideal of what it means to be a man?

Surely deconstructing narrow gender stereotypes and advocating for true equality frees both man and women?

(edited 9 years ago)

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Reply 1

Genocidal

To be fair, we already shut the feminists down because the mainstream population don't really give a **** about what they have to say.

Reply 2

username878045

This happened months ago. It's been talked about to death, and generally no-one supports these women in shutting down the debate.

Reply 3

Asolare

I was going to say "hey I know of a similar event to this" and then realised this is the exact event I knew of. It is pretty disgraceful behaviour and there have been similar incidents where [radical] feminists have insisted on destroying any kind of event concerning the social injustice men face because they simply can't accept this true.

Warren Farrell tried doing a speech at a university (he's written a lot of anti-feminist works and has most famously explained why the pay gap is nonsense) in Canada and the feminists were insistent upon shutting it down. I watched his entire speech... it was like any lecture you'd find in any university, it wasn't malicious at all. I don't know if that's the incident that occurred in this video^^ but hey.

MRA and Feminism both have it wrong. They need to go mid way (true gender egalitarianism) and actually understand heyy both sexes have issues heyy lets fix them both heyy that's equality shock horror done.

But yes I agree some MRAs blow it drastically out of proportion.

Reply 4

WitnessMO

Men are also citizens. As such, they have the right to gather, discuss and protest against an inequality or oppressive standard of today's society.

Reply 5

MostUncivilised

Original post by PythianLegume

This happened months ago. It's been talked about to death, and generally no-one supports these women in shutting down the debate.

Posting the video was really just a launching pad for the other comments I made below the video about my disagreements with aspects of the Mens' Rights Movement.

For example, I reject aspects of the mens' rights movement that bemoan womens' lack of "gratitude" for all the technological inventions made by men, that abhor the passing of a time when men used to work and women used to tend the house, and their assertion that this has somehow robbed men of their self-respect and their place in society.

I find that objectionable, and that conception of gender roles is as suffocating to men as it is to women.

feminists are vile

Sorry all, I linked to the wrong video; I've now edited the OP so it shows the correct video.

Look when the fire alarm is set off, the harpies start dancing and cheering like Ewoks after the Death Star has been blown up.

I maintain my criticisms of mens' rights advocates in the OP though; I think these are important points that mens' rights advocates should be considering and reflecting on.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8

Rakialepo

Femnists advocate hatred towards boys and men by portraying us as potential predators and a violent testosterone fueled species. Some radical feminist go as far as saying that the world would be better without men and that our population should be controlled and kept in small numbers (just enough to keep the species going).

Feminist want men to be inferior, or feel like men are inferior to women. When it's the complete opposite

Feminists have no power,they are just women's if they want to do feminism they should go to Dubai.They won't go there because they won't have any protections ...

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9

MostUncivilised

Original post by Algorithm69

What MRA advocates for the rolling back of contraceptives or women in the workforce?

The OP in this thread

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2698686

He links to a blog that bemoans those reforms, and essentially says that these social changes have robbed men of their place in society. His following comment really sums it up

Do men collectively get any thanks or appreciation for all that we have done throughout history to make life easier and more pleasant for women?

Men must happily wait while young women chase after unsuitable cads, jerks and players, only to need to "man up" and marry these women when they get off the cock carousel.

Similarly, in comment 19 the same user slates men who he sees as insufficiently masculine. As I said above, surely a mens' rights movement should be in favour of males being able to express themselves freely and be who they want to be, without judgment from other males about their particular lifestyle or sexual choices, or what they choose to wear? That seems as constricting in terms of gender expectations as anything the feminist movement has said

Reply 10

MrKappa

Original post by MostUncivilised

+1 for almost making me choke on my pizza

Reply 11

MostUncivilised

Outside the event, the feminists continued to harangue and intimidate the mens' rights advocates. This video below demonstrates the level of abuse

[video="youtube;nvYyGTmcP80"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80[/video]

Not only do you have the screaming banshee telling everyone to shut the **** up while she reads out her list, if you go to about 7 minutes in you can see the old lady and the stupid kid in the stupid black hat standing over the mens' rights advocate. Oddly enough, the points the red-headed woman makes are not unreasonable; she rightly points out that there are many issues on which feminists and MRAs should agree. But she and her friends appear more interested in grinding down the opposition than in genuine dialogue

Reply 12

MostUncivilised

Original post by Algorithm69

MRAs attract a minority of cranks, I guess. The vast majority of MRAs are all for campaigning for less strict gender roles (many assert they are the reason for the high rate of male suicides and premature death rates compared to women), and contraception (many campaign for "male abortions" and await the male pill with glee), and have no problems with women in the workforce (provided they have the same entry standards as men, and are not let in through positive discrimination).

You won't find any of the MRA "leaders" advocating such tripe. Certainly not Warren Farrell or Erin Pizzey who have written extensively on men's issues.

I will certainly look into those writers, thanks for the pointer. I'm fairly unfamiliar with MRA writings and credo so I will have to research more, I was just quite taken aback by what Drake10 was saying and I believed he was conveying, more or less, beliefs that are widely held by MRAs.

I am certainly glad to hear that MRA are in favour of less strict gender roles, and I compeletely agree that you could probably link that to higher suicide rates (lots of boys are bullied for being effeminate or seeming gay, and this leads to many problems... ironically enough, I was out at school and was never bullied but a boy who was not gay was bullied for being sensitive and effeminate, and he had to go to another school).

I'm also in agreement with MRA about a "male abortion"; I think that if a man wants an abortion and the woman does not consent, then he should not have any responsibility for child support.

Thanks again for the pointer to Farrell and Pizzey, I will check them out

Reply 13

TheBritishArmy

Feminism and authoritarianism are worryingly closely linked nowadays.

Reply 14

ClickItBack

The root of all these issues - feminism getting a bad rep, anti-feminists spawning out of the woodwork, radfems and rad-MRAs going at each other hammer and tongs (including on this forum) - imo all comes down to the legitimacy granted to radfem ideology by permitting those who espouse it to become academics and professors, and subsequently steer the entire subject of gender studies/feminism into extreme territory. Much of their 'research' is poorly conducted, non-evidence-based, and biased - and many of their views are unbelievably heinous.

This grant of legitimacy means that it's common for students who think of themselves as 'liberal' to stage protests calling for the resignation of professors who produce scientific, peer-reviewed studies showing cognitive differences in men and women, while at the same turning a blind eye to feminist academics proclaiming that the world needs to be 'decontaminated' of men.

This is not to say rad-MRAs and antifems are any better in their views or behaviour - they're not. The difference is, society does not give them any legitimacy, whether in the form of academic appointments or via mainstream-media platforms. The sooner radical feminism's influence is cleansed from the mainstream and relegated to just another noisome niche group, the better for everyone.

Reply 15

MostUncivilised

Original post by Algorithm69

Not only that, but masculinity is so tied up in being "providers" and "protectors" for women and children, that the chances of men committing suicide skyrockets immediately after a divorce or redundancy. Those events literally destroy a man's sense of masculinity and self-worth.

So it's no mystery why MRAs want family court reform as well.

I don't doubt that for some men, their sense of self-worth is tied up in being a "protector" and "provider", and that this would take a hit after divorce or redundancy, but I don't see how that is either the fault of feminism or an issue of mens' equal rights.

If anything, it is primarily a function of their own constricted view of gender roles, and their own inability to cope with adverse life situations. I don't see how the law aggravates the issue of suicide, or a man's sense of self-worth, in situations of divorce or redundancy.

I don't disagree that there may be reforms that could be made to how the courts make decisions about custody, but the overriding consideration of the court by law is the best interests of the child and I would be surprised if in recent years the courts have not reflected the greater recognition of men's desire and ability to have equal custody

Reply 16

MostUncivilised

Original post by ClickItBack

This is not to say rad-MRAs and antifems are any better in their views or behaviour - they're not. The difference is, society does not give them any legitimacy

That's a good point, though I would point out that while academia has afforded legitimacy to radical feminists (as it has also been ludicrously indulgent of "queer theorists", and I say that as a gay guy), that recognition and legitimacy remains largely confined to academia.

It would be difficult to say that feminists have been successful in broader society given men continue to possess the preponderance of positions of authority, well out of proportion to their numbers. The number of women in the cabinet, in the judiciary, and the like are well below half.

I'd say that the men's rights complaint is as much a class issue as a gender one; the specific complaints of the MRA are often ones that are inextricably tied to a lack of money (i.e. wealthier men are usually still well off after a divorce, despite losing half, and often have a new wife lined up and resources to match. They do not suffer as much from losing their job, their role of provider is not threatened in such a way, and so on)

Reply 17

username1337098

Original post by Algorithm69

So a couple of women with a bad attitude problem are definitive proof feminism is poisonous and ineffective, as are most feminists, yet a slime ball arguing women have too much freedom and should be sent back to the days of total male domination - and the horde of neanderthals agreeing with him - is just a 'minority crank'?

Hypocrite. In terms of the ratio of genuine wish for equality to hateful drivel, MRAs are far, far worse.

Reply 18

MostUncivilised

Original post by Algorithm69

People are only constrained to the degree that they feel themselves constrained. One of my best friends is a gay guy (like me) and he is married to another guy, they have a surrogate pregnant with their child. He's a lawyer, he likes football, medieval history, model rockets and knitting (yes, with the knitting sticks, or whatever they're called). He's Northern, working class and slightly geeky. He comes across as a perfectly normal guy, he clearly couldn't care less what other people think or other people's views of what a man is supposed to be.

Such a conception of masculinity was completely unthinkable 15 years ago, he's just powering ahead with how he wants to live his life, as I think are (for example) most gay guys. Given we're people who have probably been most heavily put upon in the past by expectations of what masculinity is supposed to be, and we're managing to get on with our lives, why can't other men? What precisely is holding them back?

This imbalance has come about because an "equality" movement has spent decades liberating one gender and denying or ignoring the other. This has led to many men being stuck in limbo. I think this is a men's rights issue.

I don't deny there are men's issues (health issues like suicide, depression and prostate cancer, etc), but I don't think they cross the threshold into a rights issue (except to the extent that joint custody is effected by the courts). If you are an adult male, then I simply cannot see how you are constrained by anyone but yourself.

As for family court, I'm no expert, but there are arguments that courts continue to hold onto sexist views about women being better carers

Ironically enough, many MRA proponents appear to be of the same view when they talk (as Farrell definitely does) about "inherent biological differences" and men's "role as a protector and provider".

Fundamentally, except as it relates to protecting boys from bullying, and fighting stereotypes in the media, I really don't see how any man could genuinely say that he is being oppressed on the basis of his gender.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 19

MostUncivilised

Original post by Algorithm69

Like I say its an issue of men's rights because their societal expectations, from both men and women, put them at a profound disadvantage. MRAs want men to have the choice to be "traditionally" masculine, to forge new concepts of masculinity, or to forgo masculinity in its entirety. In today's society, I doubt you'd disagree that men are constrained by gender roles far more than women are. This imbalance has come about because an "equality" movement has spent decades liberating one gender and denying or ignoring the other. This has led to many men being stuck in limbo. I think this is a men's rights issue.

As for family court, I'm no expert, but there are arguments that courts continue to hold onto sexist views about women being better carers (which Big Red in those videos you linked agrees with). Many argue that "the best interests of the child" is just a euphemism for "the best interests of the mother". But I'm not expert.

I'd just add, men are more free today than they have been at any time in human history; to express themselves in terms of their sexuality (this includes heterosexual men), to follow their own interests, to be self-actualised and be an individual. I really cannot see, personally, how some men feel "oppressed" except insofar as some men (like Drake10) feel genuinely robbed by the loss of status and their position as "protector and provider", which was a false consolation as it imprisoned many men in an identity they neither chose nor wanted, and men are still free to be that if they can find a woman who has the same view of gender roles (that last bit seems to be the crux of the complaint, that women don't appear to want that)