Are HND's worth it? Are they REALLY a full Degree?

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Anonn123
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by Anonn123)
Hi,

I've been applying for some Business HND's.

I've been told that it's a 2 year course + a 1 year optional top up to a full degree.

Is this true or is it just a crappy equivalent or a lower level?
It is true.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Anonn123)
Hi,

I've been applying for some Business HND's.

I've been told that it's a 2 year course + a 1 year optional top up to a full degree.

Is this true or is it just a crappy equivalent or a lower level?
Depends.

At some universities, you are taught the same course as the first two years of a degree with the degree students. At others, you aren't.
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Joinedup
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HND's are quite an old HE qualification that used to get a lot of respect from employers when there were fewer people doing degrees.

they seem to be getting replaced by something called a 'foundation degree' at a lot of places which is the same NQF level of course but seems to be marketed more on the assumption that you'll want to progress to the final year of a Bachelors degree afterwards rather than going straight on to get a job.
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returnmigrant
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An HND is VERY much worth doing. Employers like it because they know its full of solid practical training and its graduates hit the ground running. They are certainly NOT the equivalent of a Foundation degree. Conversion from HND to degree is a very common route and again is attractive to employers. A degree via this route is worth the same, if not more, than any other degree.

So, no, they aren't seen as 'second best'. If you aren't sure if 'further studies' is for you, or don't have the obvious entry requirements for a straight degree, an HND is a VERY good option.
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Anonn123
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That's great guys, thanks for the replies. Really happy that it's a proper degree with the optional year.

I shall be doing it this September if all goes well
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by Anonn123)
That's great guys, thanks for the replies. Really happy that it's a proper degree with the optional year.

I shall be doing it this September if all goes well
Good luck. Enjoy.
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Joinedup
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
An HND is VERY much worth doing. Employers like it because they know its full of solid practical training and its graduates hit the ground running. They are certainly NOT the equivalent of a Foundation degree. Conversion from HND to degree is a very common route and again is attractive to employers. A degree via this route is worth the same, if not more, than any other degree.

So, no, they aren't seen as 'second best'. If you aren't sure if 'further studies' is for you, or don't have the obvious entry requirements for a straight degree, an HND is a VERY good option.
could you explain some of the differences?
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x__justmyluck
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(Original post by Joinedup)
could you explain some of the differences?
A foundation degree is below the standard of a bachelors degree a HND is the first 2 years of a bachelors degree.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by x__justmyluck)
A foundation degree is below the standard of a bachelors degree a HND is the first 2 years of a bachelors degree.
You may be confused with a foundation course.

A foundation degree "topped up" with an additional one year equals a bachelors' degree.

That doesn't mean that returnmigrant is wrong merely that your explanation of why he is right is not correct.

I would also be grateful for returnmigrant's explanation.
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returnmigrant
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An HND is designed as an essentially non-academic vocational training and is a well-established and highly reputable stand-alone qualification in its own right. They are not designed as part of a degree program although the HND plus final degree year(s) is a highly credible route to a degree.

Foundation degrees are 2 year programs usually designed for people who (for whatever reason) lack the correct admissions requirement for the full degree. They are designed as a way of getting those applicants up to speed so they can then transfer to the 2nd or 3rd year - ie. 2+1 or 2+2. its an arrangement more common in more practical subjects such as sciences, art & design, performing arts or people like those working in school education or local government staff who don't actually need a 'full degree'. Although it is, technically, a 'stand alone' qualification, its pretty useless without the extension as it will be regarded by many as simply a half-completed degree program.

PS. Foundation 'courses' are not the same as Foundation 'degrees'. These 1 year 'courses' are A level standard courses for international students, or other 'way below degree standard' candidates but at a University, and usually regarded as on a par with Access courses. They are for entry to Year 1 of a conventional degree program - 1+3.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
An HND is designed as an essentially non-academic vocational training and is a well-established and highly reputable stand-alone qualification in its own right. They are not designed as part of a degree program although the HND plus final degree year(s) is a highly credible route to a degree.

Foundation degrees are usually designed for people who (for whatever reason) lack the correct admissions requirement for the full degree. They are designed as a way of getting those applicants up to speed so they can then transfer to the 2nd or 3rd year and is more common in more practical subjects such as sciences, art & design, performing arts. Although it is, technically, a 'stand alone' qualification, its pretty useless without the extension as it will be regarded by many as simply a half-completed degree program.

PS. Foundation 'courses' are not the same as Foundation 'degrees'. The 'courses' are. pseudo A level courses for international students, or other 'way below degree standard' candidates but at a University, and usually regarded as on a par with Access courses.
Thank you for that.

My original post was "it depends" and having heard what you have put, I stick with that. I have no doubt that you are describing the HND or 20-25 years ago but for example:-

HND students follow exactly the same syllabus as degree-level students but benefit from additional support and tutorials during their first two years of study.
http://courses.bolton.ac.uk/Details/Index/1713

http://www3.cardiffmet.ac.uk/English...x#.U5Rm6iijGT0

http://www.rbge.org.uk/education/pro...-plantsmanship

In cases such as this, the HND is simply the first two years of the BSc course.

A bit of googling has found this internal memo about the conversion of an HND to a FdSc at Brighton. Forgive me, but they don't look like radically different beasts to me. They look like the difference between a Morris 1100 and an Austin 1100.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...7wlCDQ&cad=rja
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Mimi124
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HND are often seen as a bridge to a degree, a HND course can lead onto the final year or final two years of a degree, meaning you can upgrade your qualification to an honours degree.
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