Bit of advice about a speeding ticket, please! Watch

piiiink
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Speeding ticket came through the post the other week, weren't sure who was driving so mum wrote back and asked for photographic evidence. They've written today and said that the car was travelling away from them so there is no photographic evidence to go by. As it's mums car, they've written in the letter that its her responsibility to know who's driving at all times. Obviously a load of rubbish. I mean, me and my dad are also insured and could quite easily drive the carwithout her knowledge - legally. So anyway, we're not sure who was driving as both my dadand myself drove up that road on that day at similar times!! Where does mum stand? My brother is under the impression that as its mums car, she should know and therefore they'll just prosecute her and give her the points. She's written a letter explaining how both my dad and I had driven up the same roadthat day and asked if that means she just has to nominate one of us because she genuinely doesn't know who was driving. Any chance they might drop this and not give anyone points/a fine?!
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Navajo
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Simple as this, whoever's name is on the vehicle lisencing document (i.e. the vehicle's owner) will get the fine.

Unless she/he writes back and says it was someone else, e.g. you and you agree to it.

No way they will drop it. It's best to decide between you who would be best to have the points.

It'll push your insurance up as a young driver so probably not you, and maybe your Dad/Mum needs a car for work? So you'll have to decide. But surely it has the time and date so you can sort of work out who it was.
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kookabura
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Its your mums car so even though you or your dad could have legally driven it without her knowing (as you said) it is ultimately your mums responsiblity. I very much doubt that they will drop it, they know that someone was speeding in that car, they don't really care how gets the points and fine but will want to give them to someone. Like Navejo said if you don't decide something amongst your family your mum will get the points and fine. It is probably best for you to decide yourselves who is better taking the points. Has anyone one of you already got points? I assume you are a younger driver so are you out of the two year probationary period yet?

It seems like I stupid thing to have to do, deciding you gets the points, but you may as well have a think and come up with something otherwise you mum will just get them anyway.
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L0RA
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I'm not being funny but dont these fines come through within two weeks?

So you honestly have no idea who was driving?

I wouldnt start thinking you'll get away with it, thousands of people have said they 'cant remember' who was driving but for the majority its ended in bigger fines as they knew perfectly well who was driving at that time. I'm ot accussing you of using this trick but just pointing out people have tried and failed to use it before.

Was it a gatso? Surely one of you remembers a double flash behind you they're pretty hard to miss.
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ONBH
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I read somewhere that it is a criminal offence not to nominate a driver when you have been issued with a speeding penalty. On that basis you're not going to be able to get away with it and your mother will have to nominate one of the insured drivers on the car. I suggest you pick along the lines of who it will penalise the least in terms of insurance and points.
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addagrrr8
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(Original post by Navajo)
Simple as this, whoever's name is on the vehicle lisencing document (i.e. the vehicle's owner) will get the fine.

Unless she/he writes back and says it was someone else, e.g. you and you agree to it.

No way they will drop it. It's best to decide between you who would be best to have the points.

It'll push your insurance up as a young driver so probably not you, and maybe your Dad/Mum needs a car for work? So you'll have to decide. But surely it has the time and date so you can sort of work out who it was.
utter crap...

...do a search on the internet there is a site that will be able to sort it out for ya..

but you you've legally used all posible methods to find out whos driving (only legal way to get the pic) and still cant prove it they cant prosecute... check the site though ive got a few friends thats got away with this a few times by doing this!!
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pghstochaj
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They DO prosecute in such a case, it just means you will have to attend court and tell the truth rather than just accepting the NIP etc. Then if it is shown that you genuinely didn't know, you will be let off because they can't punish the wrong person.
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piiiink
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You all must think I'm a bit stupid, but, I know I was driving on that road near that time, but so was my dad. It must have been a mobile camera van but I never saw one, and so I can't swear to it that it was me!

It shocks me though, that they could prosecute my mum (If it goes that far) because she owns the car that was speeding. When we KNOW it wasn't her. I was just wondering what they'd do though.

I'm likely to have to take the points though if someone has too. My dad already has 6 points, mum wasn't driving that day and I'm just 2 months away from the end of my probationary period (With 2 weeks left of driving till then, it's seriously unlikely I'd get more to lose my license!)
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pghstochaj
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That's why it's a difficult defence, because few people would believe you both drove down that road at a similar time. For example, if I drove my dad's car last weekend and got the ticket this morning, I would be able to track back to what I did last saturday (and him) and see who it was - if it was likely that we both drove in a similar area during that day that is, otherwise the location would sort it out straight away.
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piiiink
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My nan and cousin live up that road, also there was a shop that mum and dad went to that day. I know it sounds like its being made up, I'm just wondering whether they'd believe that and so not bother because they can't prove it. Also, I'm a little scatty, and find it difficult to remember what I did yesterday sometimes!
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pghstochaj
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Don't we all, but a court appearance usually jogs your memory!

I believe your mum as the registered keeper has 28 days to inform who was driving or the possible drivers, after that, she's with-holding evidence or similar. In court, if you can show that your nan and cousin live there and what shop it was it will help. However, I assume your mum and dad went to the shop and bought something, so receipts/credit card bill will show time.
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OBScene
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(Original post by piiiink)
As it's mums car, they've written in the letter that its her responsibility to know who's driving at all times. Obviously a load of rubbish. I mean, me and my dad are also insured and could quite easily drive the carwithout her knowledge - legally.
Technically, every time you drive the car you need consent from her - even if that consent is taken as given. Got to be careful - if she doesn't say who was driving the car and says it was either your Dad or yourself, you could both be prosecuted for taking a vehicle without the owner's consent.
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gbduo
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Contact a lawyer and see if they will take the case on a no win no fee basis.

Make sure you contact a lawyer that specialises in the field and has a good succeed rate!

As they don't have photographic evidence, you have to incriminate yourself which is illegal and is basically entrapment. Worth talking to a lawyer.

Graham
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pghstochaj
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No such thing as entrapment in UK law is there.
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gbduo
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Pretty sure there is, it was on The Bill last night

They couldn't arrest the bloke because the way it had been set up it would have been entrapment, so they had to leave it.

Graham
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pghstochaj
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The Bill isn't real though Entrapment is far from what we think of it from the US.

In English law entrapment is not a substantive defence; i.e. it does not automatically negate the prosecution case. The Court has the authority to stay the proceedings (prevent the case going ahead) if to proceed would "threaten the integrity of the justice system". The Court may also exclude evidence obtained unfairly under the provisions of section 78 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, but this is held not to be appropriate where entrapment is claimed.
http://www.freebeagles.org/articles/entrapment.html
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gbduo
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The Bill isn't real?! Heretic!

But, if you use entrapment in the UK sense you are going against the fundamental principle that UK law is based on, innocent until proven guilty. Thats the farce of speeding tickets, you are guilty till proven innocent!

Graham
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piiiink
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Lawyers is going a bit far, but thanks for the suggestion! And as for reciepts etc they probably won't have any, or wouldn't of kept them.

I guess the thing thats key is whether it matters that mum didn't know who was driving. Is it really law that you have to ask and have explicit permission everytime you drive someones car? Surely married couples by law share stuff or whatever, so even if the cars in her name, its still my dads car too? Also, there's nothing stopping her saying that she gave me permission to drive to my nans and then gave my dad permission to go somewhere else, there could be such a tight time frame that she didn't know... Maybe nexttime weshould keep a log book of who drives thecar when..
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Ethereal
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(Original post by piiiink)
Lawyers is going a bit far, but thanks for the suggestion! And as for reciepts etc they probably won't have any, or wouldn't of kept them.

I guess the thing thats key is whether it matters that mum didn't know who was driving. Is it really law that you have to ask and have explicit permission everytime you drive someones car? Surely married couples by law share stuff or whatever, so even if the cars in her name, its still my dads car too? Also, there's nothing stopping her saying that she gave me permission to drive to my nans and then gave my dad permission to go somewhere else, there could be such a tight time frame that she didn't know... Maybe nexttime weshould keep a log book of who drives thecar when..
Techcnially you need the permission of the registered legal owner each time. It is the legal duty of the registered legal owner to know who is driving the car at all times.

One other point, you said you think it was a camera van but that the photo was taken from the rear? It isn't a camera van in that case because they take photos from the front.
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piiiink
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There's no fixed cameras anywhere in my town that I know of. And I know there is DEFINATELY not a fixed camera on that road (I travel up and down it a few times every week). So I don't know what else it could have been!? They were probably hiding down a street thats on a corner, and so would only of caught whoever it was as they were going away from them?!
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