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Interesting change of directions for a fizzy cyst...?
edders
Errr that's not an answer to the question. :p:

And it's not such a big change. Physics is nature's economics, just think energy exchange. :wink:



Mmmm, energy exchange. Like the chinese takeaway that just exchanged energy with my stomach :-D
Reply 3
edders
...I want to do economics at uni for postgrad, but wouldn't be able to afford it if I had to pay the fees myself. If one gets an offer, what are the odds of getting the studentship too?

I'm thinking primarily of the Oxford 2+2.


Low unless you've done economics before, I would assume.

Unless it's a shockingly good research proposal that outshines those of current economics students from better unis too.
Reply 4
Chocca
Low unless you've done economics before, I would assume.

Unless it's a shockingly good research proposal that outshines those of current economics students from better unis too.

I'm working on it :wink:
Reply 5
If you have a first I think you have a good chance of being accepted and funded for the Oxford MPhil Economics + DPhil. Economists look up to physicists and mathematicians (and many Nobel Laureate economists took first degrees in maths or physics, justifying the respect given) and the Oxford MPhil is especially known for taking those without economics undergraduate degrees.

I know three current Oxford MPhil economists, two did economics undergrads at Harvard and one did an economics undergrad at UCL. I think your Imperial physics degree would compare well with a UCL economics degree.

I have heard of them accepting computer scientist undergrads before and physics is more applicable than computer science.

Definitely worth applying! Best of luck!
Good luck, mate.
Reply 7
deen
If you have a first I think you have a good chance of being accepted and funded for the Oxford MPhil Economics + DPhil. Economists look up to physicists and mathematicians (and many Nobel Laureate economists took first degrees in maths or physics, justifying the respect given) and the Oxford MPhil is especially known for taking those without economics undergraduate degrees.

I know three current Oxford MPhil economists, two did economics undergrads at Harvard and one did an economics undergrad at UCL. I think your Imperial physics degree would compare well with a UCL economics degree.

I have heard of them accepting computer scientist undergrads before and physics is more applicable than computer science.

Definitely worth applying! Best of luck!


a first doesnt make a difference for an esrc scholarship - no additional marks are given for open competition.

its difficult to say what your chances are. send you application to a world class boffin who will write your reference for you telling the world how good you are. its worked for others.
Reply 8
A first might not make much difference to getting an ESRC studentship but the Oxford MPhil Economics course is very competitive and you're unlikely to be admitted to it without a first. And if you're not admitted then you can't get an ESRC studentship.
edders
...I want to do economics at uni for postgrad, but wouldn't be able to afford it if I had to pay the fees myself. If one gets an offer, what are the odds of getting the studentship too?

I'm thinking primarily of the Oxford 2+2.


Hey edders,
I'll recommend that you contact the department first- by e-mail/phone (or better still, meet them). Given your 1st degree, you might have to come up with a great proposal, but a lot depends on your enthusiasm and initiative. Apart from the ESRC studentships, the department (and the University) might have other bursaries. Ditto about the colleges- there are fully funded scholarships for which you might be eligible.
If it is hard to get into the Oxford M.Phil, there's always Cambridge! :biggrin:
Cambridge Econ >>>>>>> Oxford Econ, probably.
Reply 11
The Boosh
a first doesnt make a difference for an esrc scholarship - no additional marks are given for open competition.

its difficult to say what your chances are. send you application to a world class boffin who will write your reference for you telling the world how good you are. its worked for others.




5421
newhere
Not sure why you think this, but the ESRC assesses competition applications on the basis of three factors: previous academic history, references and research proposal. They award points on a certain scale (I think 1-30) and fund those with the highest number of points. I agree with you though that references are very important.

The ESRC recently changed the rules in that the "open competition" is no longer open: candidates who do not receive a quota place from their department (either because they were not selected or because the department does not have any) cannot simply put in an application and hope for the best (as is the case for the AHRB). Rather, each department selects ONE candidate, who then enters the competition. Last year's offer rate was 26%, though I think the new system did not kick in until this year, so the future success rate could be higher (given that with the previous system, the ESRC was swamped with low quality applications).

So in short, the OP needs to secure a) admission by the department and b) either a quota place or at least the nomination.

Hope this helps.



yeah i didnt write about that stuff because i assumed the person would have known it (these points are in the esrc application guidance notes that you download when you download the application form).

i know what i know because ive gone through the application process twice and have an esrc studentship. the literature explicitly states that a 2:1 is fit for applying, its a benchmark, but no additional marks are given for a 1st class honours.

regarding open competition, that rule has been in place for a while. An ESRC outlet department could only support one 1+3 candidate (you find departments wanting students to apply to them so they can pick the best for the open comp). Regarding the +3 application, i know three years ago a department could send as many applications as it liked. Perhaps they now restrict the +3 application to one candidate per department (which would make sense).

TSR applicants always ask if they are likely to get a studentship and in no way can anyone reply that having a first class honours will get you on the right path. there is far more to it than that.
Reply 13
The Boosh
yeah i didnt write about that stuff because i assumed the person would have known it (these points are in the esrc application guidance notes that you download when you download the application form).

i know what i know because ive gone through the application process twice and have an esrc studentship. the literature explicitly states that a 2:1 is fit for applying, its a benchmark, but no additional marks are given for a 1st class honours.

regarding open competition, that rule has been in place for a while. An ESRC outlet department could only support one 1+3 candidate (you find departments wanting students to apply to them so they can pick the best for the open comp). Regarding the +3 application, i know three years ago a department could send as many applications as it liked. Perhaps they now restrict the +3 application to one candidate per department (which would make sense).

TSR applicants always ask if they are likely to get a studentship and in no way can anyone reply that having a first class honours will get you on the right path. there is far more to it than that.




234
newhere
I agree. (And the new rules now apply to +3 applications, too).

The list of quota places by outlet in another thread is interesting - I was surpised to the see that LSE appears to have lost its 2 quota awards for International Relations. I thought they were one of the three, four good places for IR.


the +3 rule would make sense. my dept. approached me and announced that i have been selected to apply (which i automatically assumed I would) - a wierd moment because the year before (2004?) anyone could apply for the +3 (i know of at least 3 people in my dept. who got open comp studentships in 2004). I just thought the announcement was a formality - didnt realise only one candidate could be nominated.

regarding the LSE quotas - they are time limited. they have 2-3 years of quotas then its back to open competition again and the department has to win quotas. this process was changing last year too, but originally a dept. was awarded quotas if candidates won open competitions two years running - i think this was a quality assurance issue(making sure the applications were worth while and of good quality) and a sharing of finances issue (only limited funds so you couldnt always give it to LSE, especially if say Goldsmiths had some cracking proposals and were more than capable of winning quotas). When I applied this process was changing, and a permanent quota system was being discussed - but this clearly isnt the case because quota allocation is still very fluid. I suppose if LSE applications this year are better than anyone elses then they should get their funding back (if the two years of open-comp success rule still applies).

Wierd game isnt it? I think a department with esrc-outlet status has to show that it's maintaining is worth too - so nobody can rest really!
edders
People are talking about proposals... as the MPhil is taught in the first 1.5 yrs or so, that doesn't really apply, does it?


Yes. If you read both the Oxford and ESRC websites, the research proposal is absolutely pivotal in being admitted. If you don't know anything about economic theory, I suggest you get reading, seriously.
Reply 16
edders
People are talking about proposals... as the MPhil is taught in the first 1.5 yrs or so, that doesn't really apply, does it?



453
newhere
I think the research proposal business is something of an odd game: no-one seriously expects an undergrad to know at the beginning of a master's what they would like to do their PhD on (in fact, for a 1+3 or 2+2 course you're effectively applying during your last undergrad year). Also, some people will have access to academics who can guide them, other's won't (for instance if you're changing subjects between undergrad and postgrad). What's important is to have a basic idea of the literature so as not to propose something that is too predictable, and understand how to present a proposal and make it look vaguely professional. In my experience, it's rare for people to stick to their exact proposal. That said, I'm speaking about politics and international relations - perhaps it is different for different subjects.




the esrc gives different weighting to different sections of the application to cover this - less on the proposal and more on background/references for the 1+3. BUT - you still need a corker of a proposal because it still counts for about 25-30% of the marks. And those that are organised and focused enough and who have phd supervisors who are very supportive do produce quality proposals. They dont give away £55,000 (tax free) worth of funding (over 4 years) for bog-standard proposals. If its not outstanding youll have to find different means of funding your phd.
i assume you need a proposal because they need to judge what you are going to do
i assume you need a proposal because they need to judge what you are going to do. doesnt the esrc website have a 2+2 application?!!?