Is it just me, or do all dental/medical students at uni think they're god's gift?

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Average surgeon wage in the UK is 60 grand a year. As I said, there are people working in the financial sector who make that a month

I find that hard to believe. My mum is a reporting radiographer (band 7, the same as senior nurses) and she gets paid around £42-45k depending on overtime. I'd expect a surgeon would be paid a lot more than 60.

Reply 81

tania<3

Can't believe the amount of doctor/medical student bashing on this thread.

Yes no one likes arrogant pricks but from this thread you would honestly think that we're all like that... I myself know of people who think they are God's gift to Earth, and guess what - not all of them are medical students. You get people like that in every competitive course. I don't like them either but to categorise every single medical/dental student under that umbrella is just unnecessary.

Jeez, give us a break. Half of you guys don't even know what it takes to be an actual doctor - I suggest you go and find out just how much blood, sweat and tears it takes to become a half decent one. Yeah it's a stable career, pay isn't too bad but in all honesty when you've just finished a 12 hour shift, having been on your feet all day, with barely any breaks, and hardly any time spent with your loved ones, you would want to complain too.

Yes this is the career that we've chosen ourselves, we all know fully well all the crap that comes with the job but saying that we should even complain about it because "we've brought it upon ourselves" is stupid. Stuff like dealing with unpleasant bodily functions is fine, we won't complain about that.

Working more than 45 hours a week we will complain about, a) because we're not supposed to, but we have to because of NHS shortages and b) if a patient is dying it's hardly like we can say "well too bad, I've worked too much today, I'm off home".

At the end of the day, we're in this to help people, not for the money, not for the prestige. Because there are a billion other jobs out there where you could get the same rewards without half the amount of **** that we have to deal with. Most people who are only in for prestige/money get filtered out of medical school throughout the years, because you need the right motivation to even finish the degree.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I hate to see how much bashing there is on this thread, because people will always remember the negative things about doctors/dentists/any healthcare professional, and not the positives.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 82

tania<3

Original post by TSA

Subjects such as economics require much more theoretical thinking than medicine which is mainly rote learning.

Yes, because doing practical exams (OSCEs, which are necessary to pass medical school) where someone judges you on your bedside manner is definitely rote-learning. :rolleyes:

Reply 83

username1456920

Original post by tania<3

Yes, because doing practical exams (OSCEs, which are necessary to pass medical school) where someone judges you on your bedside manner is definitely rote-learning. :rolleyes:

I'v just read and then re-read my comment. I'm certain I said mainly. You can read it yourself if you don't believe me, as you obviously didn't read it properly first time round.

Reply 84

tania<3

Original post by Aivicore

My sister-in-law is a surgeon on over 100K, and much as she's an otherwise lovely individual, she seems to think she's doing the actual hardest job in the world..

I would say that being a surgeon is pretty difficult as jobs go... Especially neurosurgeons.

Reply 85

tania<3

Original post by TSA

I'v just read and then re-read my comment. I'm certain I said mainly. You can read it yourself if you don't believe me, as you obviously didn't read it properly first time round.

And OSCE's count as quite a large majority, so I would say that it's "mainly" not rote-learning. For preclinical medicine, where it's all lectures and theories yes, but that becomes insignificant if you have the bedside manner of a peanut

Reply 86

username1456920

Original post by tania<3

It can be argued that OSCE's could be rote learned.

1. Introduce yourself
2. Tell them what you are there to do
3. Ask if they have any questions before you start
4...
etc..

Working your way through like a checklist. Yes you will have to adapt it slightly for each patient but the basic framework is essentially the same.

Reply 87

Blutooth

Original post by Welsh Bluebird

I studied computer science but I tell women I'm a pilot. Always works.

You should tell em you've sold an app for 20 million dollars. Also, I am a computer scientist and training to be a pilot.

Reply 88

tania<3

Original post by TSA

If that was the case then you could get computers to take histories for patients...

How do you rote-learn a "breaking bad news" station? Or a station where the patient is reluctant to tell you something and you have to coax it out of them? Yes there is a framework but you can't rote-learn communication skills

Reply 89

username1456920

Original post by tania<3

Give it time. Technology can only advance so fast.

http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/foundation-training/real-life-advice/breaking-bad-news
Obviously needs to be tailored to patients character, personality, condition etc...

1. Reassure them about confidentiality
2. Assure them it will help them rather than harm them
3...
etc.
Develop a rapport with the patient, this will be taught with a basic framework which will need to be adapted depending on the situation at hand.

Yes you can't rote learn communication skills but that is one out of many parts that make a "good" doctor.

Hence I stand by my statement, that the majority of studying medicine is rote learning.

I'm getting pretty bored of this so I'm going to stop replying.

Reply 90

Anonymous #2

Original post by Anonymous

Well done, you got at least AAA, a load of work experience and volunteering, UKCAT exams, interviews A*/A GCSEs and you managed to get an offer for a very prestigious course...
But that doesn't mean you're better than anyone. You're servants to the public.
I overheard a dental and a medical student talking about how they pull girls purely by telling them their a dental or a medical student. I mean, what type of bimbo actually falls for that?
Or the ones who think if you're not studying medicine or dentistry theres no point going to university
Anyone else have similar experiences, sick and tired of it at my uni!

Totally agree. The ones I've met have their head stuck up their arse. I did shadow doctors for a few months, and the way behave is as if they are superior to everyone else. The arrogance they show towards others is annoying. There is also an issue of trying to outshine competition, telling everyone they are the best, so that they would not lose their patients to other doctors. Intense competition + Potentially High earning power = making of an a**hole. It's the system that makes them that way.
However, that is my experience. There may be 99% of Doctors/Dentists who don't act like that, but it just so happens that I didn't come across them.

I'm probably gonna get flamed, but I'm speaking from an honest point of view from a future medical student(I'm starting this September). My parents are doctors, my uncle is a doctor, and my cousins are also doctors, so I feel that I have a fair amount of experience interacting with doctors on a daily basis. I've heard the competition in med school is intense, and only gets worse after you start doing your training. So if they don't act that way, they will be low down on the totem pole.

Unfortunately, all the idealistic stuff that we constantly talk about may be sidelined by the need to constantly perform well and get the best opportunities, so it becomes a case of "do things in the best interest of the patient as long as I get noticed".

But, really, their behaviour is only human nature.

Reply 91

Arieisit

Lol @ all the butt hurt doctors being told most of their work is rote learning. It is actually. Ironically, there's an argument about communication skills which someone without a medical degree can manage.
Doctors think that they are so intelligent and that they can do any other degree they wish and succeed when in reality, they'd be crying after a month in degrees like mathematics at Cambridge, Physics or Engineering at many unis.
They are arrogant and snotty and deserve the **** hours they have to work in hospitals.

Good luck to all the Medical doctor hopefuls, I wish you a hell of a life.

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Reply 92

Kvothe the Arcane

Not at uni so ignore if you wish.
The med students I've meant are merely confident, not cocky. Didn't really notice much of a difference between them and other hard working, smart, students.

Reply 93

Kvothe the Arcane

Original post by Arieisit

Most learning is rote-learning. People generally tend to memorize things by repetition. Sure, testing in certain subjects might require that students a bit more ingenuity and intuition but I think you over-estimate how big a role this plays. Medicine might require more fact memorization than other degrees, but I think it's foolish to claim that the students wouldn't be able to handle other STEM subjects (especially when it's doubtful you've a real understanding of the course content for the degrees you're comparing).

(This is just my opinion. Not a uni student)

Reply 94

anonwinner

"Well done, you got at least AAA, a load of work experience and volunteering, UKCAT exams, interviews A*/A GCSEs and you managed to get an offer for a very prestigious course...
But that doesn't mean you're better than anyone."

Are you serious?

Reply 95

Chief Wiggum

Wow, completely depressing thread. My year group at medical school is full of completely lovely people. I can't help but think people posting here just have biased preconceptions.

Original post by Arieisit

What an absolutely disgusting and bitter post.

What on earth is your problem?

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 96

TattyBoJangles

This thread is like reading the comments section on the Daily Mail.

Meh. Assume I'm cocky / arrogant / up my own arse because of the course I study if you so wish. :dontknow:

Christ knows, I'll be called worse at some point throughout my career.

Of course, you get arses in any walk of life. I can genuinely say I've not met too many of them on my course, although, granted, I haven't started clinical yet. All I can say is, sorry you happen to have met the tits, but most of us aren't like that.

Also, people saying Medical students have to be confident - I'd disagree to an extent. There's a rather large gap between being confident and being timid / not believing in yourself.
I would say that I am comfortable, not particularly confident. I am comfortable talking to patients, building a rapport, even having a joke if it's appropriate - but in general life, I'm not a particularly confident person.

Reply 97

ultsyn

Those who will understand this will "just get it".

I think this may be about Ego...

-People don't always portray who they truly are/what they truly think. Sometimes we say things to "fit in" or to seem to have a certain characteristic(and that is different in people eye's depending on life experience).

I think controlling your ego is a challenge in todays society when your're associated in any profession that other people/society place great value upon. When your "put on a pedestal" by everyone around you it becomes difficult. The more you fight it the worse it gets - like a vicious circle (fighting your ego). (This somehow reminds me of Einstein - read into it.)

Overall i think to reduce ones ego is difficult however is something that few truly achieve.

Also i think meeting anyone in person can have a greater effect that a few words like in this post. There's little expression of true feelings and much of that is assumptions others have made (again based on their own personal life experience.) - this alters the real substance behind this.

PS - Anon#1 I would PM you (go into a more personal level) but...
- Anyone want to dicuss more, feel free to PM :smile:

Ultsyn

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 98

Arieisit

Original post by ultsyn

Those who will understand this will "just get it".

I think this may be about Ego...

-People don't always portray who they truly are/what they truly think. Sometimes we say things to "fit in" or to seem to have a certain characteristic(and that is different in people eye's depending on life experience).

I think controlling your ego is a challenge in todays society when your associated in any profession that other people/society place great value upon. When your "put on a pedestal" by everyone around you it becomes difficult. The more you fight it the worse it gets - like a vicious circle (fighting your ego). (This somehow reminds me of Einstein - read into it.)

Overall i think to reduce ones ego is difficult however is something that few truly achieve.

Also i think meeting anyone in person can have a greater effect that a few words like in this post. There's little expression of true feelings and much of that is assumptions others have made (again based on their own personal life experience.) - this alters the real substance behind this.

PS - Anon#1 I would PM you (go into a more personal level) but...
- Anyone want to dicuss more, feel free to PM :smile:

Ultsyn

I'd PM you to tell you that you do not know the difference between your and you're but why should I PM you when I could do it here. It is very upsetting.

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