'Rape culture' doesn't exist - final verdict
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Original post by Fireking
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Again there is no need for this hostility. If you believe what they believes is not correct try to explain to them why. Do not hurl out abuse. There is enough in the world as it.
Thank you
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Fireking
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A feminist woman is a woman who believes that men and women should be treated equally.
Anyone claiming to not be a feminist has clearly got mental problems or a massive chip on their shoulder. (aka, you).
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by tnetennba
A feminist woman is a woman who believes that men and women should be treated equally.
Anyone claiming to not be a feminist has clearly got mental problems or a massive chip on their shoulder. (aka, you).
Anyone claiming to not be a feminist has clearly got mental problems or a massive chip on their shoulder. (aka, you).
I believe in equal treatment and rights, but I'm no feminist. Thing is, from everything I've seen both sexes are now treated equally. That is not to say they are treated the same - that's the perverse and rather sinister utopia that only western feminists believe in.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MC armani
Go ahead and explain. What did they dismiss?
There are rules on TSR about repeatedly posting the same content.
As I said I responded in the other thread linked to above. Feel free to read my post on there and come back on it if you like but I have better things to do that repeat myself or copy and paste my own posts
Original post by MC armani
I believe in equal treatment and rights, but I'm no feminist. Thing is, from everything I've seen both sexes are now treated equally. That is not to say they are treated the same - that's the perverse and rather sinister utopia that only western feminists believe in.
Equal treatment = the same treatment. There is no difference. I have no clue what you think is "perverse" and "rather sinister" about the mind-boggling notion that people should be treated the same.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
Original post by PQ
I responded there.
I am a feminist.
I believe rape culture exists and is harmful and that tackling it we could reduce the incidence of rape.
I do not agree with the description of rape culture in the RAINN report - they dismiss something that is not my understanding of rape culture.
I am a feminist.
I believe rape culture exists and is harmful and that tackling it we could reduce the incidence of rape.
I do not agree with the description of rape culture in the RAINN report - they dismiss something that is not my understanding of rape culture.
Would you say that
'a culture of rape' or "a culture of sexism, objectification and unconscious misogyny" is more accurate?
Original post by karmacrunch
Thank you!
The phrase 'rape culture' is ridiculous! I'm not saying that rape does not exist but is not a culture. If people think it is... that is very disgusting :/
The phrase 'rape culture' is ridiculous! I'm not saying that rape does not exist but is not a culture. If people think it is... that is very disgusting :/
I think it's the latest cultural phenomenon after Harry Potter and Game of Thrones.
Only thing is, we don't know what colour to dye our hair due to lack of character development.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by natninja
Would you say that
'a culture of rape' or "a culture of sexism, objectification and unconscious misogyny" is more accurate?
'a culture of rape' or "a culture of sexism, objectification and unconscious misogyny" is more accurate?
I'd say "a culture of silencing victims and rationalising the actions of perpetrators" is more accurate personally - but it's not exactly catchy and in the circles within feminism that I talk to that is exactly what is understood by the phrase "rape culture"
Original post by tnetennba
Equal treatment = the same treatment. There is no difference. I have no clue what you think is "perverse" and "rather sinister" about the mind-boggling notion that people should be treated the same.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
Treating both genders equally and treating them the same are separate concepts. The distinction is often made in debate because there are inherent differences between men and women that mean they cannot be treat exactly the same, but both can still enjoy equality in terms of opportunities and state resources etc.
There's a massive difference between highlighting inequalities between men and women and just being a nit-picking perfectionist. We are not trying to balance a mathematical equation here.
Original post by PQ
I'd say "a culture of silencing victims and rationalising the actions of perpetrators" is more accurate personally - but it's not exactly catchy and in the circles within feminism that I talk to that is exactly what is understood by the phrase "rape culture"
What is your rationale for believing that is more accurate?
Original post by tnetennba
Equal treatment = the same treatment. There is no difference. I have no clue what you think is "perverse" and "rather sinister" about the mind-boggling notion that people should be treated the same.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
So you'd treat young/teenage boys and girls exactly the same would you? I'm not sure whether you can take yourself seriously and say such a thing.
Women already have equal rights and equality, so any more shouting and campaigning for 'oppressed women' is surplus to requirements. If you can show me that women are unequal or have lesser legal rights then I'll be impressed, but I don't think you can.
Original post by Dark Horse
What is your rationale for believing that is more accurate?
Again if you read my post in the other thread it explains things in more detail.
Among some of the more recent examples would be: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/9236106/We-believe-her-campaign-for-Ched-Evans-victim-after-vile-internet-abuse.html
If you don't think that the treatment of the victim in that case and the excuses made for the perpetrator are a problem for society then please don't bother replying as there's little point in me discussing this with you.
Original post by PQ
I'd say "a culture of silencing victims and rationalising the actions of perpetrators" is more accurate personally - but it's not exactly catchy and in the circles within feminism that I talk to that is exactly what is understood by the phrase "rape culture"
Yes but to the person on the street it is interpreted differently - as a culture where it is ok to rape...
Original post by MC armani
Women already have equal rights and equality, so any more shouting and campaigning for 'oppressed women' is surplus to requirements. If you can show me that women are unequal or have lesser legal rights then I'll be impressed, but I don't think you can.
Women already have equal rights and equality, so any more shouting and campaigning for 'oppressed women' is surplus to requirements. If you can show me that women are unequal or have lesser legal rights then I'll be impressed, but I don't think you can.
Are you actually being serious... look at all of the abominable horrors suffered by women in India. And in other middle-eastern countries where it is legal for a man to beat his wife if the force used is reasonable. Women not being legally allowed to leave their homes unescorted or drive cars. And loads of other countries where it is legal to mutilate the genitals of female babies. I'm pretty sure that these women would be thankful for feminist campaigning.
Original post by PQ
I'd say "a culture of silencing victims and rationalising the actions of perpetrators" is more accurate personally - but it's not exactly catchy and in the circles within feminism that I talk to that is exactly what is understood by the phrase "rape culture"
Whether there is "a culture of silencing victims and rationalising the actions of perpetrators" cannot be established by either of us so that's just conjectural.
But endorsing the 'rape culture' label simply because you think it's a convenient, pithy little phrase is extremely crass. It's precisely because of this easy phrase that a growing number of young women and girls are given to believing they're in constant danger of being sexually assaulted or raped. It breeds paranoia and alienation, and who's going to say this is healthy for social cohesion and gender relations?
Rape is a problem in the same way murder is a problem. The difference is that the former is spun as a gender issue, implicit in which is the notion that 50% of the population are being systematically abused by patriarchal social superiors. It's being perceived less and less as the criminal act that it is, and more as an instrument of social oppression.
Original post by tnetennba
Equal treatment = the same treatment. There is no difference. I have no clue what you think is "perverse" and "rather sinister" about the mind-boggling notion that people should be treated the same.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. If you believe in equal treatments and rights, you are a feminist.
You all need to grow up.
Are you a masculinist?
Original post by CJKay
Are you a masculinist?
That isn't even a word?
Original post by tnetennba
Are you actually being serious... look at all of the abominable horrors suffered by women in India. And in other middle-eastern countries where it is legal for a man to beat his wife if the force used is reasonable. Women not being legally allowed to leave their homes unescorted or drive cars. And loads of other countries where it is legal to mutilate the genitals of female babies. I'm pretty sure that these women would be thankful for feminist campaigning.
You can't be serious?
We were obviously referring to the UK. And not the world as a whole, but you're clearly shifting the goalposts to try and win the argument.
Original post by tnetennba
Are you actually being serious... look at all of the abominable horrors suffered by women in India. And in other middle-eastern countries where it is legal for a man to beat his wife if the force used is reasonable. Women not being legally allowed to leave their homes unescorted or drive cars. And loads of other countries where it is legal to mutilate the genitals of female babies. I'm pretty sure that these women would be thankful for feminist campaigning.
I've always believed in feminism for women in (usually theocratic) countries where they are horrifically oppressed and denied even basic human rights. That is what feminism is and has always been resolved against.
But you won't see the legions of feminists in this country campaigning against the filthy preachments about women in the Quran or the Bible. Of course not. You want to know what 'rape culture' is? Read some of the Islamic Hadiths.
No, feminism in the west is too concerned with their own petty and self-serving straw man arguments to bother about women who are actually oppressed, and they'll fight for the banning of Page 3 and the fallacious gender pay gap with more ardour than they'd even think to give to the subjection of their sisters in Iran or Syria or Saudi Arabia. They wouldn't dare to criticise Islamic fascism or the Sharia, under which women are viciously dehumanised and treated no better than chattel.
So don't preach to me about the 'real issues' here when western feminism continues to shirk them. The hypocrisy is for these self-serving feminists to bear, and while they persist in ignoring it, they'll continue to find that their movement isn't taken seriously.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by PQ
Again if you read my post in the other thread it explains things in more detail.
Among some of the more recent examples would be: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/9236106/We-believe-her-campaign-for-Ched-Evans-victim-after-vile-internet-abuse.html
If you don't think that the treatment of the victim in that case and the excuses made for the perpetrator are a problem for society then please don't bother replying as there's little point in me discussing this with you.
Among some of the more recent examples would be: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/9236106/We-believe-her-campaign-for-Ched-Evans-victim-after-vile-internet-abuse.html
If you don't think that the treatment of the victim in that case and the excuses made for the perpetrator are a problem for society then please don't bother replying as there's little point in me discussing this with you.
All I did was ask you a question. Leave your unwarranted aggression out of this please.
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