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Has this 'mob' changed the laws of physics? watch

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    Calling all physics students!

    This company makes massive claims that amount to a changing of the energy laws of physics - what do you think?

    Are they the 'saviours' of the ecological world or is their swish website just a scam?

    http://www.steorn.net/en/technology.aspx?p=5
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    I doubt its possible, and I'm sure they can justify not giving details on the grounds of thieves. They say no one who has seen it wants to go on record backing them up, which could either mean no one agrees with them, or anyone who did see it wasn't allowed to check out the equipment properly.

    They probably do have some highly efficient energy production methods, but I think they have exaggerated their claims to get top scientists to say 'Whilst this isn't 150% efficient, it is still very high', not bad for publicity
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    I would love them to change Newtons 3rd Law of Motion.

    Many lives could be saved! from Car Accidents, Plane crashes, to People falling from Tall buildings, and so on.
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    Bull****.
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    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!", as an eminent physicist once said. Well, he works in a Nuclear Power Plant, anyway.
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    http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
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    You cannot get something out of nothing, so nothing can be over 100% efficient, they may be accidently puting more energy to it than they realise(or the machine is taking it from another source which they do not realise), or maybe they are lying.
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    http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archiv...nd_free_1.html

    Recall that Steorn is a former e-business company that saw its market vanish during the dot.com bust. It stands to reason that Steorn has re-tooled as a Web marketing company, and is using the "free energy" promotion as a platform to show future clients how it can leverage print advertising and a slick Web site to promote their products and ideas. If so, it's a pretty brilliant strategy.
    Seems likely to me.
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    They make a claim that contradicts the known laws of physics. They provide no direct evidence for this claim. They advertise their claim in The Economist instead of submitting a scientific paper to a scientific journal.

    This has been done before, hundreds of times. For centuries people have been claiming to produce perpetual motion machines, not once has any of these claims been verified. Am I skeptical? Yes.
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    (Original post by jpowell)
    They make a claim that contradicts the known laws of physics. They provide no direct evidence for this claim. They advertise their claim in The Economist instead of submitting a scientific paper to a scientific journal.
    While I agree that it's probably Bull****, it's also possible that the Laws of thermodynamics aren't actually being broken, and that the Energy is coming from somewhere they don't/can't see. Cold, Dark Matter anyone?
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    (Original post by alasdair_R)
    Cold, Dark Matter anyone?
    no.
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    (Original post by doublex)
    no.
    Well, probably not as a source of energy, no. But just as an example of something that's very difficult/impossible to detect, yet possibly/probably exists.

    But, just to re-iterate, this DOES seem like a large crock of BS...
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    -Uhm, Jim you do realise that generator efficiency is measured as work out over heat in, not the other way arround, right?
    -Huh?
    -Well it just seems from your figures that...
    -OH CRAP!
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    (Original post by jpowell)
    They make a claim that contradicts the known laws of physics. They provide no direct evidence for this claim. They advertise their claim in The Economist instead of submitting a scientific paper to a scientific journal.

    This has been done before, hundreds of times. For centuries people have been claiming to produce perpetual motion machines, not once has any of these claims been verified. Am I skeptical? Yes.
    perpetual motion machines, not once has any of these claims been verified. Am I skeptical? Yes
    Talking about perpetual motion machines, are satellites that orbit the earth not perpetual motion machines????(I have always wondered about this) and if we sent a huge magnetic satellite into the earth's orbit and put a piece of copper wire all the way around the earth, would that not produce vast amounts of free energy?????
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    (Original post by happybob)
    Talking about perpetual motion machines, are satellites that orbit the earth not perpetual motion machines????(I have always wondered about this) and if we sent a huge magnetic satellite into the earth's orbit and put a piece of copper wire all the way around the earth, would that not produce vast amounts of free energy?????
    Firstly, the sattelites do experience some air resistance as whereas space is pretty much a vacum, there are still some particles flying about, and this very slight air resistance will eventually cause them to slow down and fall towards the earth, at which point they burn in the atmosphere.

    Secondly extracting the kinetic energy of the sattelite using some sort of electromagnetic setup will undoubtly slow the sattelite. Its the same reason why you need stronger wind to draw more power out of a wind turbine, drawing power out of it will slow the blades of the proppeller ( due to the induced electromagnetic fields in the generator attached to the turbine ).

    It is nevertheless possible to power sattelites for extensive periods of time by using a so called sky-hook. A sky-hook is a charged wire extending bellow a sattelite towards the earth. As the charged wire moves through the earth's magnetic field, currents are induced in the wire and the electromagnetic force due to the earth's magnetic field acting on the charges will keep the sattelite in it's orbit. The energy comes from the earth's rotation, so technically this slows down the day-night cycle, but because the earth is so massive this effect is several orders of magnitudes smaller than the tidal forces acting between the moon and the earth.

    So what if you had a planet with zero atmosphere and a true vacume, as opposed to the almost-vacume you find in outer space. Woudl that be a perpetum mobile machine? As it turns out, no it wouldn't. Einstein's general theory of relativity predicts that the circular motion of the sattelite's mass would emit gravity waves, causing the satetelite to lose energy , albeit very slowly. This effect is too small to be measured for ordinary satelites, but for massive objects such as twin stars orbiting a common centre of mass it becomes important. Measurements on pulsars have confirmed this effect with remarkable levels of accurace. Tho the effect is very low, the huge mass of a spinning star couple, together with the low freuency of their mutual revolution, can make such measurements remarkably accurate. We can measure time within nanosecond accuracy, so even a very small decrease in energy causing the stars to slow down by just a few minutes over a period of a decade or more can be measured easily.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Firstly, the sattelites do experience some air resistance as whereas space is pretty much a vacum, there are still some particles flying about, and this very slight air resistance will eventually cause them to slow down and fall towards the earth, at which point they burn in the atmosphere.

    Secondly extracting the kinetic energy of the sattelite using some sort of electromagnetic setup will undoubtly slow the sattelite. Its the same reason why you need stronger wind to draw more power out of a wind turbine, drawing power out of it will slow the blades of the proppeller ( due to the induced electromagnetic fields in the generator attached to the turbine ).

    It is nevertheless possible to power sattelites for extensive periods of time by using a so called sky-hook. A sky-hook is a charged wire extending bellow a sattelite towards the earth. As the charged wire moves through the earth's magnetic field, currents are induced in the wire and the electromagnetic force due to the earth's magnetic field acting on the charges will keep the sattelite in it's orbit. The energy comes from the earth's rotation, so technically this slows down the day-night cycle, but because the earth is so massive this effect is several orders of magnitudes smaller than the tidal forces acting between the moon and the earth.

    So what if you had a planet with zero atmosphere and a true vacume, as opposed to the almost-vacume you find in outer space. Woudl that be a perpetum mobile machine? As it turns out, no it wouldn't. Einstein's general theory of relativity predicts that the circular motion of the sattelite's mass would emit gravity waves, causing the satetelite to lose energy , albeit very slowly. This effect is too small to be measured for ordinary satelites, but for massive objects such as twin stars orbiting a common centre of mass it becomes important. Measurements on pulsars have confirmed this effect with remarkable levels of accurace. Tho the effect is very low, the huge mass of a spinning star couple, together with the low freuency of their mutual revolution, can make such measurements remarkably accurate. We can measure time within nanosecond accuracy, so even a very small decrease in energy causing the stars to slow down by just a few minutes over a period of a decade or more can be measured easily.
    Thanks for that, I was just interested thats all, although it sounds as though it's as close to a perpetual motion machine as you can get.
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    Nice explanation Jonatan. Now what about the churchill dog's head in the back of a car?
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    So what if you had a planet with zero atmosphere and a true vacume, as opposed to the almost-vacume you find in outer space.
    Ah! The physicist in his natural environment, the perfect vacuum!

    Of course, the proposed technology in the website is total piffle.
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    The last paragraph re-written to reflect the truth:

    Steorn has decided to publish its challenge in The Economist because of the breadth of its readership. "We chose it over a purely scientific magazine simply because its audience aren't scientists and might if we're very lucky fall for it and give us lots of money"
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    (Original post by doublex)
    Now what about the churchill dog's head in the back of a car?
    It is the only truly frictionless object in the universe.

    And it gives you a free courtesy car as a standard.
 
 
 
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