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    (Original post by Fleff)
    All other things being what? And in the real world things aren't equal.
    No, i made a scenario up. Read it, as well as the part where it says "all things being equal", rather than making your own scenario which implies that gays are completely clued up and the straight people have sex willy nilly with eachother without knowing it.

    In real life, both groups are probably more or less clued up as much as eacother about HIV. (% wise).
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Oh yes, that ENORMOUS number of men... :rolleyes:
    You may be surprised... Although I'm not completely clued up on the matter, me being female, and only 15, so... I suppose my opinion matters not.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    Why dismiss standing data when it is revelant in the discussion of the thread title?
    Outisde the industrialised world? please.
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    (Original post by bono)
    No, i made a scenario up. Read it, as well as the part where it says "all things being equal", rather than making your own scenario which implies that gays are completely clued up and the straight people have sex willy nilly with eachother without knowing it.

    In real life, both groups are probably more or less clued up as much as eacother about HIV. (% wise).
    No, you know, I thought that was a real scenario... How stupid to you think I am?! When did I make my own scenario that implied anything? I made no scenario other than in 10 years down the line, it's far more likely that more straight people would have HIV than gay people.
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    heterosexual anal sex usually happens between partners who have been together in a long and monogamous relationship (anal sex is quite a taboo for heterosexuals). Therefore, there are fewer incident of anal sex in heterosexual relationships than homosexual relationships and they usually occur during long-term relationships. I am not saying that homosexuals don't have long term relationships - I am saying that more homosexual one-night-stands will generally include anal sex (and a higher risk of transmission) then heterosexual one-night-stands. One-night-stands and promiscuity are enormous factors in HIV/AIDs transmission.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    If you are suggesting that there is more anal penetration going on within the heterosexual community than the gay community then why is it; a clear link between unprotected sodomy and HIV contraction an undisputed fact; that there are proportionally a lot fewer heterosexuals dying of AIDs in the UK than homosexuals?

    There can only be two explanations. Either you are a lot more enthusiastic about anal sex than most heterosexual partners or heterosexuals that do so indulge take the trouble to wear a condom. Wouldn't you agree?
    The word "proportionally" here is important. I am discussing the numbers only, no percentages.
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    You may be surprised... Although I'm not completely clued up on the matter, me being female, and only 15, so... I suppose my opinion matters not.
    Again, if you chose to read what I quoted, I was infact making a point to Phil about the % being more important than the others by using that scenario. All other things ebing equal was supposed to stop replies of "ohhh, but what if the gay people were really clued up and the straight people weren't", or irrelevant details like that.

    It was about the greater importance placed on %, not numbers.
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    (Original post by bono)
    Outisde the industrialised world? please.
    SO WHAT THE FECK IS YOUR POINT???

    So you just want to ignore the whole of Africa? Why not concentrate on Africa instead, and ignore the whole of teh Western world?

    We are discuassing the situation of the thread title, unless you are discussing something different.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    If you are suggesting that there is more anal penetration going on within the heterosexual community than the gay community then why is it; a clear link between unprotected sodomy and HIV contraction an undisputed fact; that there are proportionally a lot fewer heterosexuals dying of AIDs in the UK than homosexuals?

    There can only be two explanations. Either you are a lot more enthusiastic about anal sex than most heterosexual partners or heterosexuals that do so indulge take the trouble to wear a condom. Wouldn't you agree?
    It was because some of the earlier HIV cultures did not spread through heterosexual intercourse. The newer ones does. In time these statistics will balance out.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    The word "proportionally" here is important. I am discussing the numbers only, no percentages.
    But it is %'s that matter, not numbers.

    I'd rather have a 2% risk of getting HIV from one population than a 10% risk from another, even though the numbers included in the 2% are more than that of the 10%.

    That is important.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    SO WHAT THE FECK IS YOUR POINT???

    So you just want to ignore the whole of Africa? Why not concentrate on Africa instead, and ignore the whole of teh Western world?

    We are discuassing the situation of the thread title, unless you are discussing something different.
    Because a lot of this argument is to do with education and precaution - things that are not widespread in not-industrialised countries.
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    (Original post by bono)
    Again, if you chose to read what I quoted, I was infact making a point to Phil about the % being more important than the others by using that scenario. All other things ebing equal was supposed to stop replies of "ohhh, but what if the gay people were really clued up and the straight people weren't", or irrelevant details like that.

    It was about the greater importance placed on %, not numbers.
    My comment wasn't to you though... I do agree with percentages being important, otherwise it's pointless even arguing about this, BUT, where numbers are concerned, and since homosexuals are a minority, it is far more likely that a greater amount of straight people have HIV.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    SO WHAT THE FECK IS YOUR POINT???

    So you just want to ignore the whole of Africa? Why not concentrate on Africa instead, and ignore the whole of teh Western world?

    We are discuassing the situation of the thread title, unless you are discussing something different.
    How can we comment on whether it is a problem in AFRICA. ?! Who's to say it is a problem in Africa?

    We can only comment on the UK's problem, as we are aware of it and live here.

    Unless you are ging to explain the intricancies of homosexual attitudes and perceptions in nigerian schools/society, then your "facts" are out of context.
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    My comment wasn't to you though... I do agree with percentages being important, otherwise it's pointless even arguing about this, BUT, where numbers are concerned, and since homosexuals are a minority, it is far more likely that a greater amount of straight people have HIV.
    Yes, but it's the % that matters.

    If 3% of one group have HIV and 25% of another have HIV, then we can deduce that the risk of transmission in the group with 25% is greater.

    that's the use of %'s. Using numbers to base any deductions is usless if the groups are of differing numbers themselves.
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    (Original post by bono)
    But it is %'s that matter, not numbers.

    I'd rather have a 2% risk of getting HIV from one population than a 10% risk from another, even though the numbers included in the 2% are more than that of the 10%.

    That is important.
    But you are actually more likely to get HIV from heterosexuals than from Homosexuals because there are far more heterosexuals than homosexuals. In terms of number of new infections heterosexual sex contributes more to the spread of the disease than homsexual sex.
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    (Original post by bono)
    How can we comment on whether it is a problem in AFRICA. ?! Who's to say it is a problem in Africa?

    We can only comment on the UK's problem, as we are aware of it and live here.

    Unless you are ging to explain the intricancies of homosexual attitudes and perceptions in nigerian schools/society, then your "facts" are out of context.
    So from your second phrase, I am assuming that you believe that there is no HIV problems in Africa?

    Ahhh, so we are talking about the UK only now?

    Unless, you have some hard facts yourself to back up your arguments, its pointless really.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    So from your second phrase, I am assuming that you believe that there is no HIV problems in Africa?

    Ahhh, so we are talking about the UK only now?

    Unless, you have some hard facts yourself to back up your arguments, its pointless really.
    CAn you read my response to this also. It's up there ^^^ (or perhaps on the bottom of the last page)
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    (Original post by bono)
    Yes, but it's the % that matters.

    If 3% of one group have HIV and 25% of another have HIV, then we can deduce that the risk of transmission in the group with 25% is greater.

    that's the use of %'s. Using numbers to base any deductions is usless if the groups are of differing numbers themselves.
    You forget to count the large number of bisexuals. The number of heterosexual people infected is not independent of teh number of homosexuals infected.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    So from your second phrase, I am assuming that you believe that there is no HIV problems in Africa?

    Ahhh, so we are talking about the UK only now?

    Unless, you have some hard facts yourself to back up your arguments, its pointless really.
    The thread title is "Homosexuality, why is it a problem". First post talks about homosexual attitudes in society.

    Now phil, which society do you think she meant? the UK society which she/he lives in and has seen, and then posts it on a UK Learning forum, or the perceptions in Africa?!

    I think your fact is not of much use in the discussion as it is out of context.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Because a lot of this argument is to do with education and precaution - things that are not widespread in not-industrialised countries.
    Here we are. Nice and easy
 
 
 
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