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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    But you are actually more likely to get HIV from heterosexuals than from Homosexuals because there are far more heterosexuals than homosexuals. In terms of number of new infections heterosexual sex contributes more to the spread of the disease than homsexual sex.
    YES, that's exactly what I was getting at.

    Including that fact that although anal sex has a high percentage of risk of getting HIV, we cannot discount the many many many more normal vaginal way of transmission.

    And heterosexual couples do vaginal more than anal as some one said (number wise), but that just means more roll of the dice with higher odds. Rather than rolling the dice fewer times with better odds of not getting HIV.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Here we are. Nice and easy
    Person makes thread on UKL-Forum: "Why are there so many hooligan footy fans."

    2776 brings in stat: "In africa, there aren't many."

    See my point? It's out of context.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    You people are un****inbelievable.

    I go to the trouble of pointing out the health dangers of homosexual activity and backing it several times with stats and facts and all I get is bloody stupid comments about sodomy not being exclusive to homosexuals (I know that) and a denial (from SADMADSCIENTIST) of the promiscuity of homosexuals based on his first hand knowledge of a couple of gay buddies who are in long term loving relationships.

    Others chose to dismiss what I have said on the basis that it is part of a Christian campaign of discrimination.

    The problem is clear. You people are so frightened of the truth, and so perverted by political correctness that you cannot bring yourself to accept anything unpleasent facts about homosexuality.

    Ya'll need to grow up some.

    Address my facts and stats. Prove them wrong or **** off.

    I'm not denying that there is promiscuity amongst homosexuals, I'm saying it isn't exclusive to gay people and it isn't ALL gay people - which is what your posts were implying. I'm quite well aware of the health risks of all forms of sexual activity, thanks. I'm just trying to say that not all homosexuals are crazed sexmaniacs with no thought for their safety or their partner's.

    Besides, you're focusing on gay men - what about lesbians?
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    (Original post by bono)
    Yes, but it's the % that matters.

    If 3% of one group have HIV and 25% of another have HIV, then we can deduce that the risk of transmission in the group with 25% is greater.

    that's the use of %'s. Using numbers to bae any deductions is usless if the groups are of differing numbers themselves.
    And this isn't involving bisexuals....
    I agree that it's the percentage that matters! I see your point.... please try and see mine. It's difficult to conclude that homosexuals are the main cause of the spread of HIV and other STD's, if (NOT USING PERCENTAGES) more heterosexuals have contracted these STD's. Out of the whole population of England, I'm sure more heterosexuals have HIV than homosexuals, due to the difference in numbers "belonging" to each group... And there was something I was going to add to that but I've forgotten........ Oh yes. And STD's are most definately not the only reason that homosexuals aren't accepted by some people. Which was the point of this thread - to find out (if possible) why some people do not like homosexuals (regardless of personality).
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    (Original post by 2776)
    And heterosexual couples do vaginal more than anal as some one said (number wise), but that just means more roll of the dice with higher odds. Rather than rolling the dice fewer times with better odds of not getting HIV.
    But if the heterosexual couple has vaginal sex 9 times and anal once, the homosexual couple has anal sex 10 times. Crudely put, but the odds of infection are persistently and consistently higher for anal sex and therefore the odds of transmission are higher for the homo rather than hetero couple.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    YES, that's exactly what I was getting at.

    Including that fact that although anal sex has a high percentage of risk of getting HIV, we cannot discount the many many many more normal vaginal way of transmission.

    And heterosexual couples do vaginal more than anal as some one said (number wise), but that just means more roll of the dice with higher odds. Rather than rolling the dice fewer times with better odds of not getting HIV.
    Good post Phil.
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    A major point which has been ignored in this entire debate is the different groups motives for using protection. Gays are much more aware and carefull when it comes to HIV, whereas heterosexuals mainly use condomns in order to avoid pregnancy. Therefore, you cannot argue that because fewer homosexuals (percentagewise) uses a condom homosexual sex is bad.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Here we are. Nice and easy
    Yes. thats noted.

    Education and precaution.

    That's a valid argument.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    A major point which has been ignored in this entire debate is the different groups motives for using protection. Gays are much more aware and carefull when it comes to HIV, whereas heterosexuals mainly use condomns in order to avoid pregnancy. Therefore, you cannot argue that because fewer homosexuals (percentagewise) uses a condom homosexual sex is bad.
    Now that is a good point. I would agree; I mean if a gay person uses a condom it is obviously for protection from STD's, but the majority of heterosexuals would use it to "avoid getting pregnant".

    I would conclude that there is higher awareness among the gay population (by now, i hope) - probably because the % risk of infection is higher due to the implications of aanl intercourse.
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    (Original post by bono)
    Now that is a good point. I would agree; I mean if a gay person uses a condom it is obviously for protection from STD's, but the majority of heterosexuals would use it to "avoid getting pregnant".

    I would conclude that there is higher awareness among the gay population (by now, i hope) - probably because the % risk of infection is higher due to the implications of aanl intercourse.
    Yes, but with heterosexual sex the fear of getting pregnant is always there. With homosexual sex and condoms getting used to prevent STDs you have the "I trust you" or "Do I look infected/dirty?" persuasion argument. Therefore, heterosexual couples may be inclined to use condoms more regularly than homosexual couples.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    But if the heterosexual couple has vaginal sex 9 times and anal once, the homosexual couple has anal sex 10 times. Crudely put, but the odds of infection are persistently and consistently higher for anal sex and therefore the odds of transmission are higher for the homo rather than hetero couple.
    I understand, but again this boils down to percentages, and statistics.

    Your argument works if we are comparing person per person between homosexual and straight men.

    But we are not, we are comparing 98% of the population who are straight against 2% who are gay. Gay, as including lesbians as well.
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    (Original post by bono)
    Good post Phil.
    If that was scarcasm, you forgot the rolleyes emoticon
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Yes, but with heterosexual sex the fear of getting pregnant is always there. With homosexual sex and condoms getting used to prevent STDs you have the "I trust you" or "Do I look infected/dirty?" persuasion argument. Therefore, heterosexual couples may be inclined to use condoms more regularly than homosexual couples.
    As the end of March 2001, 27,269 men who have sex with men have been diagnosed with HIV.

    On the basis of these figures gay men have been criticised for being promiscuous and taking unnecessary sexual risks. However, evidence suggests that on the contrary gay men have been very sensitive and responsive in regard to safer sex promotion and condoms are widely and properly used

    So yes. In supporting Blissy's point.
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    (Original post by bono)
    The thread title is "Homosexuality, why is it a problem". First post talks about homosexual attitudes in society.

    Now phil, which society do you think she meant? the UK society which she/he lives in and has seen, and then posts it on a UK Learning forum, or the perceptions in Africa?!

    I think your fact is not of much use in the discussion as it is out of context.
    1. We are allowed to develop the discussion. Like you normanlly do.

    2. We cannot ignore a bigger issue, we may put it aside, but not ignore.

    And Blissy. Your comments are noted.
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    (Original post by bono)
    Person makes thread on UKL-Forum: "Why are there so many hooligan footy fans."

    2776 brings in stat: "In africa, there aren't many."

    See my point? It's out of context.
    That's a totally unrelated issue, and it would be better reflected if we comment on something like this:

    "Why are there so few footy hooligans in Africa"

    And my comment was that in the UK, hooligans are more prevelant. With the accompanying explaintions
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    (Original post by 2776)
    If that was scarcasm, you forgot the rolleyes emoticon
    It wasn't though.
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    (Original post by MadNatSci)
    I'm just trying to say that not all homosexuals are crazed sexmaniacs with no thought for their safety or their partner's.
    "In a national study carried out in Britain in the 2000 however, it was discovered that between a quarter and a fifth of homosexual men have never had anal sex as either the penetrative or receptive partner. In recent years, since it has become clear that penetrative sex is a particularly risky activity with regard to HIV, quite a lot of men who previously had penetrative sex have altered their behaviour."

    Yes, I agree, with that.
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    (Original post by bono)
    It wasn't though.
    See, that was the problem. I was presenting my valid point. Yet, everyone apart from some who saw through all of this, saw the real statistics.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    For your arguments to have any relevance to homsexual practices it must be put in perspective to heterosexual ones.
    Well then why don't you propose a motion to change the title of the thread? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Yes, but with heterosexual sex the fear of getting pregnant is always there. With homosexual sex and condoms getting used to prevent STDs you have the "I trust you" or "Do I look infected/dirty?" persuasion argument. Therefore, heterosexual couples may be inclined to use condoms more regularly than homosexual couples.
    I dissagree. You say that the fear of getting pregnant is always there. This will simply not force heterosexuals to use condoms as contraceptives. Alternative contraceptives are developing, and as a result the use of condoms among heterosexual couples may decline. Recent development sugests that a hormon based contraceptive for men is close, and the hormon based contraceptives used by many wommen are getting more sofisticated, decreasing the chance of side effects, and also enabling wommen to switch to other products which may have different chemical compositions and thus not give the same side effects. Also, contraceptives are more widely used to help wommen tackle menstruation cramps. Thus even if heterosexual couples are currently more inclined to use a condom, that may be about to change. Also, this is not a problem ascociated with homosexual sex, but rather with the education and incentives to use protection.
 
 
 
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