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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well then why don't you propose a motion to change the title of the thread? :rolleyes:
    What's the title of the thread got to do with anything? This discussion has developed far beyond what I had expected, so much so that my original post and the idea behind it isn't relevant anymore...
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    (Original post by blissy)
    But if the heterosexual couple has vaginal sex 9 times and anal once, the homosexual couple has anal sex 10 times. Crudely put, but the odds of infection are persistently and consistently higher for anal sex and therefore the odds of transmission are higher for the homo rather than hetero couple.
    If we take the virus transmission as a model then we can prety much accuately replicate it as a program with the following parameters:

    -80:20 Anal:Other form of sexual activity with homosexual couples
    -98:2 Other:Anal form of sexual activity with straight couples
    -98:2 Straight couplesomosexual out of an active sexual population of around 30 million. [Is this about right?]

    -60% anal penetration risk from HIV

    More parameters will be eddited into it, as more people give their facts. UK only
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    (Original post by 2776)
    "In a national study carried out in Britain in the 2000 however, it was discovered that between a quarter and a fifth of homosexual men have never had anal sex as either the penetrative or receptive partner. In recent years, since it has become clear that penetrative sex is a particularly risky activity with regard to HIV, quite a lot of men who previously had penetrative sex have altered their behaviour."

    Yes, I agree, with that.
    That's a completely different finding than that put forward in the survey I earlier cited that said that due to the availability of drugs that stabilize HIV more gay men are barebacking. I guess it depends which survey you reference doesn't it?

    Either the people who conducted both these surveys are total incompetents or one of them is making up a lot of ****.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well then why don't you propose a motion to change the title of the thread? :rolleyes:
    One of the first questions in the introductionary post of this thread was:
    "Why do some people have a problem with homosexuals?"

    Now, I just mentioned that this was partially because some people claimed that homosexual sex had a greater potential to transmit sexual diseases than heterosexual sex. I later claimed that this was neglichable.

    Also, so what if teh title sais one thing. You must interpret all writing anyways. I doubt that there is anyone here (except you) who interpretated the start of thsi thread as: What is the problems with homosexuality, ignoring any problems concenrned with heterosexuality.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    "In a national study carried out in Britain in the 2000 however, it was discovered that between a quarter and a fifth of homosexual men have never had anal sex as either the penetrative or receptive partner. In recent years, since it has become clear that penetrative sex is a particularly risky activity with regard to HIV, quite a lot of men who previously had penetrative sex have altered their behaviour."

    Yes, I agree, with that.
    However whilst many young men were pleased to discover that anal sex wasn't an expectation in their early relationships, they were usually very clear about the particular circumstances under which they would agree to penetrative sex. Much of this seemed to be based around a concept of the 'right' time and included notions of trust, respect, 'saving it', sharing yourself and 'doing it with someone special'. Anal intercourse appears to be seen by many young men (at least before they start having penetrative sex) as a similar marker of a 'committed' loving relationship that is encouraged in young people when there is discussion of (vaginal) sexual intercourse
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    (Original post by 2776)
    If we take the virus transmission as a model then we can prety much accuately replicate it as a program with the following parameters:

    -80:20 Anal:Other form of sexual activity with homosexual couples
    -98:2 Other:Anal form of sexual activity with straight couples
    -98:2 Straight couplesomosexual out of an active sexual population of around 30 million. [Is this about right?]

    -60% anal penetration risk from HIV

    More parameters will be eddited into it, as more people give their facts. UK only
    It's not as simple as that. The main "spreaders" of HIV/AIDs are promiscuous sexual partners (male or female). Promiscuous sexual enocunters between men are more likely to include anal sex than promiscuous sexual encounters between a man and woman.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    One of the first questions in the introductionary post of this thread was:
    "Why do some people have a problem with homosexuals?"
    Oh yes. 260 something posts ago :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Oh yes. 260 something posts ago :rolleyes:
    So does that mean that because, say, 1500 years ago, someone asked if God existed, we can't try to answer it now? I'm still welcoming any opinions and comments etc, and it was me that asked it in the first place...
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    (Original post by blissy)
    It's not as simple as that. The main "spreaders" of HIV/AIDs are promiscuous sexual partners (male or female). Promiscuous sexual enocunters between men are more likely to include anal sex than promiscuous sexual encounters between a man and woman.
    Thats why the variables eventually builds up to an extent we can't accurately model it.

    And not limited to anal. Promisicous straight men go for vaginal more, like you said, but that has a risk of transmission as well.
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    OK, to ask another question then (or repeat one I asked a few posts ago). We've established that people have a problem with gay men because their sexual activity carries the risk of disease. But homosexuality isn't exclusive to men: women have same-sex partners too. Can we perhaps move away from the endless (and in many cases contradictory) statistics about diseases and examine society's attitude to lesbianism too then? Why do people have a problem with lesbians?
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    it endangers the very fabric of human life. A relationship containing two men/women, can not reproduce. Therefore, if everyone was homosexual the human race would end.

    However, we must not be judgemental, because nobody is perfect.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    That's a completely different finding than that put forward in the survey I earlier cited that said that due to the availability of drugs that stabilize HIV more gay men are barebacking. I guess it depends which survey you reference doesn't it?

    Either the people who conducted both these surveys are total incompetents or one of them is making up a lot of ****.
    Invalid conclusion.

    The development of such drugs may discourage teh use of a condom, and at the same time the icreased awareness may encourage it. Also, you would be quite amazed to find out what one can do with statistics. The problem is that we here have several groups of people. Those homosexuals who do not have anal sex. Those who do have anal sex. Those who use a condom, and those who do not use a condom. There is no reason why it might not be the case that the number of homosexuals having anal sex has decreased at the same time as more and more homosexuals may have disregarded using a condom.

    In order to illustrate how carefull you have to be when drawing conclusions from statistics I like to mention an example from the US. Some time ago A university in California was accused of discrimination when it turned out that the acceptance rate for wommen was lower than the acceptance rate for men. However, when one were to implement means to counter this, it was found to be an impossible task because in each and every department the acceptance rate of wommen was greater than the acceptance rate for men. It turned out that the wommen applied to more difficult courses and thus had higher rejection rates. The moral of this story, dont draw conclusions from statistics alone.
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    (Original post by AM1)
    it endangers the very fabric of human life. A relationship containing two men/women, can not reproduce. Therefore, if everyone was homosexual the human race would end.
    That would never happen. And I'm sure the majority of homophobes don't dislike homosexuals because they can't reproduce, but because of some other reason.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    That's a completely different finding than that put forward in the survey I earlier cited that said that due to the availability of drugs that stabilize HIV more gay men are barebacking. I guess it depends which survey you reference doesn't it?

    Either the people who conducted both these surveys are total incompetents or one of them is making up a lot of ****.
    Yes, statistics are all BS.

    That I agree with, there are so many conflicting reports of the numbers of gay men, it ranges from 1.1% (latest one) to 10% (in the 1980's)
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    So does that mean that because, say, 1500 years ago, someone asked if God existed, we can't try to answer it now?
    Erm.....no. But it does mean that people should at least try to keep up with the discussion as it naturally proceeds.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    See, that was the problem. I was presenting my valid point. Yet, everyone apart from some who saw through all of this, saw the real statistics.
    I said you made a good point, why the negativity?
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    (Original post by AM1)
    it endangers the very fabric of human life. A relationship containing two men/women, can not reproduce. Therefore, if everyone was homosexual the human race would end.

    However, we must not be judgemental, because nobody is perfect.
    Uhm. Of course, the fact that less than 4% of the population is gay has just slipped apart here. The world has an ever increasing population and the resources are limited. Furthermore, in a population of 6 billion people it is simply not possible for the species to be threatened by homosexuality as evolution would kick in as soon as it became a disadvantage to humans as a species.
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    That would never happen.
    It certainly wouldn't. Not with me around anyway
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    In order to illustrate how carefull you have to be when drawing conclusions from statistics I like to mention an example from the US. Some time ago A university in California was accused of discrimination when it turned out that the acceptance rate for wommen was lower than the acceptance rate for men. However, when one were to implement means to counter this, it was found to be an impossible task because in each and every department the acceptance rate of wommen was greater than the acceptance rate for men. It turned out that the wommen applied to more difficult courses and thus had higher rejection rates. The moral of this story, dont draw conclusions from statistics alone.
    We all know that "There are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics". Only a fool would believe statistics (especially of one source)
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    (Original post by bono)
    I said you made a good point, why the negativity?
    There was no negativity. You picture it as such as an attack on your personal opinons.
 
 
 
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