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yawn1
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#21
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#21
(Original post by happysunshine)
I don't agree with that at all. Counselling seems to be the solution to everything these days.

There are reasons why people feel like this and counselling isn't nessescarily going to change this being that some of these wanting to be another gender feelings are (scientists, is this wrong?) genetic, environmental and thus 'installed' in these people.

It's as bad as saying 'you're ugly, get counselled and no plastic surgery ever for you or anyone else'.
My point about pyschiatric counselling is that I believe those who are indubitably male/female but wish to re-assign are suffering from a mental illness and need psychiatric help, just as much as a person suffering from a deep depression or pyschosis do.
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happysunshine
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#22
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#22
(Original post by yawn1)
My point about pyschiatric counselling is that I believe those who are indubitably male/female but wish to re-assign are suffering from a mental illness and need psychiatric help, just as much as a person suffering from a deep depression or pyschosis do.
I disagree.

You are saying that it is not normal, not right to feel as if you belong to another gender?

I'd say it isn't un-normal to feel like this bearing in mind we each have a male father and female mother and are very linked to the opposite sex.
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happysunshine
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Fleff)
Is it possible to get addicted to counselling? If so, what's the treatment?
Hehe, don't ask me...:cool:
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PQ
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#24
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#24
(Original post by yawn1)
My point about pyschiatric counselling is that I believe those who are indubitably male/female but wish to re-assign are suffering from a mental illness and need psychiatric help, just as much as a person suffering from a deep depression or pyschosis do.
However many people suffering from this "mental illness" have recieved decades of counselling to no result - if counselling doesn't help solve/cure then what is the point.

Surely it's just cheaper for the NHS to pay for a few hormones and a couple of operations which *work* than to throw another victim into the mess that is the mental health services in this country which in this particular case have been shown *not* to work?
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yawn1
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
However many people suffering from this "mental illness" have recieved decades of counselling to no result - if counselling doesn't help solve/cure then what is the point.

Surely it's just cheaper for the NHS to pay for a few hormones and a couple of operations which *work* than to throw another victim into the mess that is the mental health services in this country which in this particular case have been shown *not* to work?

I agree that a few hormones and a couple of operations would be cheaper than years of counselling, but bear in mind, that counselling is not to make the person change their mind but rather to ensure that they are committed to the change.

We do not have enough evidence to support wholesale change of gender - how do we know that these people, once changed, may realise after a period of time that this does not assuage their mental problem?

Do we then try to re-fashion penises/scrotums or vaginas/vulvas again?
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happysunshine
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#26
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#26
(Original post by yawn1)
I agree that a few hormones and a couple of operations would be cheaper than years of counselling, but bear in mind, that counselling is not to make the person change their mind but rather to ensure that they are committed to the change.
They already get counselling (or something like that) anyway. It takes years to 'proove themselves', it's not "sex change please" and they get one.
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PQ
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#27
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#27
(Original post by yawn1)
I agree that a few hormones and a couple of operations would be cheaper than years of counselling, but bear in mind, that counselling is not to make the person change their mind but rather to ensure that they are committed to the change.

We do not have enough evidence to support wholesale change of gender - how do we know that these people, once changed, may realise after a period of time that this does not assuage their mental problem?

Do we then try to re-fashion penises/scrotums or vaginas/vulvas again?
There have been people counselled for decades in an attempt to "cure" them. The evidence for this treatment is that it's ineffective.

All evidence from the people who've had a properly monitored (ie complete with some counselling and a long transition phase) gender re-assignment is that it is successful (and not just in an operation term - in a mental health "cure" term) in well over 95% of cases. And most cases which have benn unsuccessful (where a patient has regretted their decision (which they have at least 4 years to make)) have been due to insufficient checks being made before diagnosis (ie these patients aren't unhappy about their gender - they're depressed and have focussed on their gender as the main problem).
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Everdawn
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#28
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#28
Here in Aus anyway. You have to 18 before you can have the actual snip-snip but pervious you have to have had a shrink's approval for it over two years of councelling. There was a case here where a 16yo male began his gender re-assignment at 16 and that was injecting drugs, he wasnt allowed to have the actual operation until 18. We had the case-studies in Legal.
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suspicious_fish
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
There have been people counselled for decades in an attempt to "cure" them. The evidence for this treatment is that it's ineffective.
After all, remember that we spent years trying to "cure" homosexuality before it dawned on us that it in't a mental illness.
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yawn1
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#30
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#30
(Original post by suspicious_fish)
After all, remember that we spent years trying to "cure" homosexuality before it dawned on us that it in't a mental illness.
Now there's another discussion!!

Many, many people DO think that homosexuality is a psychological condition, even after all the attempts at persuading people that it's not.
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blissy
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#31
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#31
(Original post by yawn1)
Now there's another discussion!!

Many, many people DO think that homosexuality is a psychological condition, even after all the attempts at persuading people that it's not.
But aren't all forms of attraction a psychological condition? We just think some are acceptable and some aren't.
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Howard
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#32
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#32
(Original post by suspicious_fish)
After all, remember that we spent years trying to "cure" homosexuality before it dawned on us that it in't a mental illness.
Isn't it?
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yawn1
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Howard)
Isn't it?
You're brave, Howard
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Howard
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#34
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#34
(Original post by yawn1)
You're brave, Howard
Not really. I just don't give a **** really!
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Howard
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#35
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#35
(Original post by yawn1)
You're brave, Howard
Perhaps it is a cureable illness.
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GH
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Howard)
Perhaps it is a cureable illness.
Hah, life is a terminal fatal illness, of which there is no cure, and is procured during conception.
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suspicious_fish
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Howard)
Isn't it?
Rather than "a curable mental illness", I'd say "an alterable state" (though I'm not sure it's alterable at all).
But yeah, you are brave.
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zazy
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Gimp)
Heard something that I thought was a a bit shocking on the radio just now so thought I would make a thread about it:

A 13 year old girl has been permitted to begin changing her sex:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnews...ection=general


What are your thoughts on sex changes? Do you think 13 is too young to be able to decide that you want one? Would you ever consider one?

Personally? I'm not sure... That's why I'm asking you!
Nope...A 13 year old girlis able to decide for herself and perhaps society is partly to blame due to the existance of prejudices...
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Apollo
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#39
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#39
i think 13 is wayyy to young to make a decision like that. How do you know she wont change her mind in a year? Then where are you? Back at the beginning.
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suspicious_fish
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#40
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#40
I believe 13 to be considerably too young, but I think the real question is, is it the responsibility of the government to decide if it should be allowed?
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