Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm about to register for the BSc in Environmental Science (Q52) starting in October 2014. I'm going to be pursuing it part-time, so I anticipate it will take me six years to finish.

    My question is this: Since the CertHE in Environment is equivalent to Stage 1 of the BSc in Environmental Science, and since the DipHE in Environmental Science is equivalent to Stages 1 + 2 of the BSc, do I automatically receive the CertHE and DipHE as I work towards the BSc? Neither the CertHE nor the DipHE will get me where I need to go, but it would be nice to be able to show demonstrable, official progress along the way, as opposed to just saying "BSc expected 2020".

    Thanks!
    • Community Assistant
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fboosman)
    I'm about to register for the BSc in Environmental Science (Q52) starting in October 2014. I'm going to be pursuing it part-time, so I anticipate it will take me six years to finish.

    My question is this: Since the CertHE in Environment is equivalent to Stage 1 of the BSc in Environmental Science, and since the DipHE in Environmental Science is equivalent to Stages 1 + 2 of the BSc, do I automatically receive the CertHE and DipHE as I work towards the BSc? Neither the CertHE nor the DipHE will get me where I need to go, but it would be nice to be able to show demonstrable, official progress along the way, as opposed to just saying "BSc expected 2020".

    Thanks!
    No, of course not. I find it so incredibly annoying when students pretend to have earned these qualifications. If you want to leave the OU before you complete your degree, and if you have enough credits, then you can claim either a CertHE or a DipHE. I believe the OU used to hand out these qualifications to students on degree programmes but thankfully they don't anymore since it is both misleading and dilutes the value of the qualification.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Samual)
    No, of course not. I find it so incredibly annoying when students pretend to have earned these qualifications. If you want to leave the OU before you complete your degree, and if you have enough credits, then you can claim either a CertHE or a DipHE. I believe the OU used to hand out these qualifications to students on degree programmes but thankfully they don't anymore since it is both misleading and dilutes the value of the qualification.
    So then can you explain to me the practical difference between, say, a CertHE in Environmental Science on the one hand and Stage 1 + 2 of the BSc Environmental Science program on the other? To quote from the Environment and Development Prospectus:

    What you will study
    For this qualification you will follow the same curriculum as Stages 1 and 2 of the BSc (Hons) Environmental Science (Q52), see page 18.
    So is there some actual difference? Do CertHE students have to execute some project or take some test after Stage 1 + 2 that BSc students don't at that point?
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fboosman)
    So then can you explain to me the practical difference between, say, a CertHE in Environmental Science on the one hand and Stage 1 + 2 of the BSc Environmental Science program on the other? To quote from the Environment and Development Prospectus:



    So is there some actual difference? Do CertHE students have to execute some project or take some test after Stage 1 + 2 that BSc students don't at that point?
    The curriculum will be the same as it was designed with the intention that students will complete the whole course. The other qualifications are for recognition of part study, and which one you get depends on when you withdraw from the course (certificate if after stage 1 or diploma for after stage 2). If youre doing the full degree, you will get neither, just the BSc upon completion.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fboosman)
    So then can you explain to me the practical difference between, say, a CertHE in Environmental Science on the one hand and Stage 1 + 2 of the BSc Environmental Science program on the other?
    There isn't any difference. But bear in mind that at a brick uni, if you did a degree (whether full-time or part-time) you wouldn't get awarded a DipHE and CertHE as you went along; the only way you'd get them is if you withdrew from or failed your course, after completing 1 or 2 years of it successfully.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Samual)
    I believe the OU used to hand out these qualifications to students on degree programmes but thankfully they don't anymore since it is both misleading and dilutes the value of the qualification.
    Couldn't disagree more. And I don't see how the value of the qualification is diluted, nor how it is misleading.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by addylad)
    Couldn't disagree more. And I don't see how the value of the qualification is diluted, nor how it is misleading.
    It used to really annoy me when you'd see people under the old setup (where they did allow you to collect awards along the way) say they'd got a Certificate in Whatever, and a DipHE, and a CertHE, and a degree, when what they'd actually done was... a degree. And, with my employer hat on, I would be really, really unimpressed by anyone doing that, because it could come across as though that person has done more qualifications than another candidate who had 'only' listed a degree on their application, when in fact their qualifications are the same. And I don't think that the majority of employers are really aware of what those qualifications really mean, so I do think it was misleading when that was possible (although not necessarily with ill intention; I get that people who did/do that were probably motivated by pride in their achievements).

    I can see why it would be nice to have your progress towards a degree recognised as you go along - but that's not something students outside the OU get, so I don't see why the OU should the exception - at best, it's confusing for employers. And it's always possible to put on applications that you are progressing towards a degree, expect to graduate in 201X, and have currently progressed to a level equivalent to a DipHE (or whatever).
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Persipan)
    It used to really annoy me when you'd see people under the old setup (where they did allow you to collect awards along the way) say they'd got a Certificate in Whatever, and a DipHE, and a CertHE, and a degree, when what they'd actually done was... a degree. And, with my employer hat on, I would be really, really unimpressed by anyone doing that, because it could come across as though that person has done more qualifications than another candidate who had 'only' listed a degree on their application, when in fact their qualifications are the same. And I don't think that the majority of employers are really aware of what those qualifications really mean, so I do think it was misleading when that was possible (although not necessarily with ill intention; I get that people who did/do that were probably motivated by pride in their achievements).

    I can see why it would be nice to have your progress towards a degree recognised as you go along - but that's not something students outside the OU get, so I don't see why the OU should the exception - at best, it's confusing for employers. And it's always possible to put on applications that you are progressing towards a degree, expect to graduate in 201X, and have currently progressed to a level equivalent to a DipHE (or whatever).
    I don't know how something so trivial could, 'really annoy,' you. You can also claim a second degree by studying just another 120 credits. Life ain't fair, huh?

    Clearly it would be evident by the fact that a) the CertHE, DipHE, and degree would be in the same field, b) the same modules would be on the diploma supplement, and c) the timeline over which these were studied would be very narrow, that they were part of the same qualification. But if somebody wanted to list them on their CV, not only would they be entitled to do so, but I say good luck to them.

    The truth is that recruiters do a lot of the legwork nowadays, filtering applications before they even reach the employer. As I struggled to get through to someone attending Cambridge, people do not generally know what an MPhil is either, and may think it is a failed PhD. But that's not the fault of the applicant; what else can they do other than list their qualifications?

    It's not something students within the OU get anymore either, so where's the issue? With my employer hat on, if you are trying to get a job, it would be reasonable to list qualifications you have achieved legitimately, and these will hold a lot more credibility than, 'I've been studying for X years'.

    You would be spending your time better by complaining about the overly embellished CVs that often contain completely made up job titles, dates, and experiences. These skew the job market more than people listing their actual qualifications.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by addylad)
    I don't know how something so trivial could, 'really annoy,' you. ... You would be spending your time better by complaining about the overly embellished CVs that often contain completely made up job titles, dates, and experiences.
    How nice that you get to decide what I should be annoyed by and how my time might best spent!

    (Original post by addylad)
    You can also claim a second degree by studying just another 120 credits.
    Not mad keen on that either, too be honest. I could technically bring across credits from my previous degree towards this one, if I wanted to, but I feel rather as though I'd be cheating myself out of the opportunity to actually study stuff. Although I can see how in some circumstances it might be a sensible move for someone.

    (Original post by addylad)
    Clearly it would be evident by the fact that a) the CertHE, DipHE, and degree would be in the same field, b) the same modules would be on the diploma supplement, and c) the timeline over which these were studied would be very narrow, that they were part of the same qualification.
    Not necessarily... there are plenty of people who've taken a lot longer than 6 years to get to a degree, if they've studied smaller modules/taken breaks along the way (less possible now, I suspect, but not uncommon in the past) so the time between one and the next might be longer; and you could easily end up with things like a Certificate in Science subsumed within an Open Degree, or whatever, so the link might not always be as apparent as just looking at the name of the qualification. Yes, it would be possible to tell if you looked at the module listing for each qualification and cross-compared them, but I'm not sure anyone would realistically do that. (Certainly no-one has ever wanted to know what modules I did on my previous degree.)

    I do take your point that outright lying on CVs exists and is a bad thing; and that if one has been allowed to collect a string of component qualifications along the road to a degree then one can legitimately lay claim to those qualifications. And certainly on the OUSA forums the prevailing view is that it's perfectly reasonable to list the lot; but I personally am not unhappy that the OU have stopped doing it.
    • Community Assistant
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by addylad)
    Couldn't disagree more. And I don't see how the value of the qualification is diluted, nor how it is misleading.
    I won't repeat what Persipan has said, she has summed up my thoughts for me.

    I set out to do a CertHE with the OU and next year I will be going to a different university to do a degree - when I eventually finish I will have two entirely separate qualifications on my CV. However, those people who are only doing a degree with the OU and who list a CertHE on their CV will seemingly have the same qualifications as me even though they will have done much less work. I don't understand why OU students feel entitled to extra qualifications for the same amount of work as other students at brick universities. If I was an employer I would bin any CV that did this without a second thought.

    (Original post by Persipan)
    It used to really annoy me when you'd see people under the old setup (where they did allow you to collect awards along the way) say they'd got a Certificate in Whatever, and a DipHE, and a CertHE, and a degree, when what they'd actually done was... a degree. And, with my employer hat on, I would be really, really unimpressed by anyone doing that, because it could come across as though that person has done more qualifications than another candidate who had 'only' listed a degree on their application, when in fact their qualifications are the same. And I don't think that the majority of employers are really aware of what those qualifications really mean, so I do think it was misleading when that was possible (although not necessarily with ill intention; I get that people who did/do that were probably motivated by pride in their achievements).

    I can see why it would be nice to have your progress towards a degree recognised as you go along - but that's not something students outside the OU get, so I don't see why the OU should the exception - at best, it's confusing for employers. And it's always possible to put on applications that you are progressing towards a degree, expect to graduate in 201X, and have currently progressed to a level equivalent to a DipHE (or whatever).
    This is exactly right.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I appreciate all the comments here. Thanks for helping me understand this issue.

    (Original post by Persipan)
    I can see why it would be nice to have your progress towards a degree recognised as you go along - but that's not something students outside the OU get, so I don't see why the OU should the exception - at best, it's confusing for employers. And it's always possible to put on applications that you are progressing towards a degree, expect to graduate in 201X, and have currently progressed to a level equivalent to a DipHE (or whatever).
    This is the best suggestion I've heard—thanks.

    Just to be clear, I have no desire to list a CertHE, DipHE, and BSc to puff up my eventual résumé. It's simply that I'm going to be studying for six years, and I thought perhaps the system would allow me to claim whatever intermediate degree I had achieved at any given point along the way. But since that isn't how it works, again, the "have currently progressed to a level equivalent to..." suggestion seems spot-on.

    I think the issue is that I'm an American student and we don't have CertHE or DipHE degrees here. What we have are AA/AS degrees, which are two-year, and BA/BS degrees, which are four-year. The trick is that it's uncommon to see a school that awards both types. As a general rule, AA/AS degrees are given out by community colleges, and BA/BS degrees by colleges or universities. So a student asking to be awarded an AA/AS along the way to a BA/BS wouldn't come up.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Just to clarify has anyone successfully transferred to a brick university using an OU certHE?
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bethkm1111111111)
    Just to clarify has anyone successfully transferred to a brick university using an OU certHE?
    Loads of people. I got an offer to, but decided not to in the end due to other factors.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Yep unconditional offer to transfer into second year for psychology.

    Some universities require you start from year 1 again but I just need to read up on my stats as that's a gap between year 2 brick and year "2" OU students - but we make up for it elsewhere. To be honest, they really really wanted me to join them. They've had really good experiences with OU students. I guess it's because of the self sufficiency and being more mature too. I can't wait
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I, unfortunately am to be made redundant within the next 2 years and as I am now >50 and had >30 years with the same employer (not in the same job) I find myself with little in the way of relevant qualifications (all outdated as >10 years old). I intend to study the CertHE over the next 2 years to allow me to have some sort of relevant qualification to present to perspective employers when I leave my current employment. I fully intend to continue to study for the DipHE in the following year/2 years depending on my employment situation then maybe continue with the final 2 years of the degree, I have not decided this yet as I will be 56 when I complete the DipHE.

    My point is, different situations demand different outcomes and just because you have the circumstances to go for the degree qualification outright does not mean everyone can or should. I would never list all of them on my CV only the most advanced as it's most relevant, so don't get annoyed just remember no two people or their circumstances are the same.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I was wondering about this. It's a shame if you can't collect the qualifications along the way. I had assumed you could, but "lost" qualifications once you reached the next stage, eg. on completing the DipHE, the CertHE became invalid.

    I've just completed my first level 1 module and was going to change my study path from the CertHE to the DipHE. Signing up to a degree from the outset seemed too monumental! On writing this comment I have realised that's a bit mad so am going to bite the bullet and sign up for the full degree instead (Q83 Social Psychology).
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    My understanding was if you register on the highest qualification (e.g. a degree) you can exit the qualification early and take a CertHE or DipHE if and when you reach the study requirements for achieving such a qualification in the first place. Certainly I was advised that if I decided I didn't want to go on and study level 3 I could exit the Open Degree with a Open Diploma after I complete my level 2 credit requirements.

    However as previously mentioned the idea that you can collect qualifications along route to a degree and present it to an employer as though you have 3 qualifications (cert, diploma and then degree) is not possible. You only get the cert/diploma if you specifically sign up for one or quit the degree early but have the required credits for an alternative award.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I have a he cert from OU. When I thought that my transfer wasn't going to happen after all, I spoke to OU and I could have continued as normal. So technically, you could claim along the way but I think they discourage it as a par for the course.

    Also, I will have two qualifications from two different institutions even though the credits actually apply to the same overall course
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.