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    B687 - Bottle Deposits Bill 2014, TSR Government

    Bottle Deposits Act 2014
    An Act introducing deposits on plastic and glass beverage bottles.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1: Standardisation of Bottles
    (1) Where beverages are sold in sealed plastic bottles, they must be sold in the standard bottles.
    a. The Government will introduce and regulate a set of standard plastic bottles of capacities 33 cL, 50 cL, 75 cL, 1 L, 1.5 L and 2 L.
    b. The bottles will contain the marking “DEPOSIT £0.25” and a barcode.
    (2) Where beer or cider is sold in glass bottles, it must be sold in the standard bottles.
    a. The Government will introduce and regulate a set of standard glass bottles of capacities 50 cL, 75 cL and 1 L.
    b. The bottles will contain the marking “DEPOSIT £0.10” and a barcode.

    2: Introduction of Deposits
    (1) A charge of 25 pence will be added at the time of transaction to the price of beverages sold in plastic bottles.
    (2) A charge of 10 pence will be added at the time of transaction to the price of beer and cider sold in glass bottles.
    (3) The price of the deposit need not be included in the displayed price.
    (4) The store must provide a record of all deposits levied and provide this, along with the deposit money, do the Government on the final working day of each month (the final working day before the 24th for December).

    3: Reverse Vending Machines
    (1) The government will install and maintain a reverse vending machine in all premises with a floor area of at least 200 m2 selling beverages on which a deposit is levied.
    (2) Reverse vending machines must accept the empty standard bottles and return the deposit.
    (3) The deposit may be returned either in cash or electronic payment.

    4: Commencement, Short Title and Extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the Bottle Deposits Act 2014.
    (2) This bill shall extend to the United Kingdom; and
    (3) Shall come into force on the 1st of September 2015.

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    Aye. Virtually a carbon copy of the German system.
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    An excellent way to encourage recycling!
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    Nay, 2.3 needs to be reversed. It must be included. Also, I think the the entire 'reverse vending machine' idea is not workable, sit actually has to exist. Furthermore, surely it would make since to say that every county council ward has to have a minimum of one recycling centre for these.


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    (Original post by Cryptographic)
    Nay, 2.3 needs to be reversed. It must be included. Also, I think the the entire 'reverse vending machine' idea is not workable, sit actually has to exist. Furthermore, surely it would make since to say that every county council ward has to have a minimum of one recycling centre for these.
    The reverse vending machine is completely workable, honest, I have used them before.

    It's quite amusing how nobody has believed me that this technology actually exists.

    The non-inclusion of the price mirrors the situation (I believe) in Germany. Because you get the money back later it is not part of the cost of the product.

    The council ward rule is a decent idea, but if there is nowhere in the ward to buy the drinks then there is probably no need to have somewhere to recycle the empties.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The reverse vending machine is completely workable, honest, I have used them before.

    It's quite amusing how nobody has believed me that this technology actually exists.

    The non-inclusion of the price mirrors the situation (I believe) in Germany. Because you get the money back later it is not part of the cost of the product.

    The council ward rule is a decent idea, but if there is nowhere in the ward to buy the drinks then there is probably no need to have somewhere to recycle the empties.
    No it is the equivalent to a tax, and you get a rebate by giving it back. That way is a lot more pogical and tourist friendly, and is identical to the system widely used in the Caribbean. You do know what a ward is right? I can guarantee that every ward bar one or two in the UK has a shop. Maybe do it so that 90% of wards in a district must have one of these.
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    Aye, it's following on from the 5p charging for plastic bags. This idea has also been rolled out in South Africa, but with milk - works out MUCH cheaper to take your own containers. I think this Bill is a great idea and I commend it in the highest!
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    (In it's current form)

    It does nothing to encourage the recycling of aluminium cans, and currently does not provide any notes on the potential economic impact of this scheme (for example, how much does a RVM cost, how many places would this need to be installed in, quantified information on how many plastic bottles are used a year (and thus a sense of scale of the problem) etc.). Good intentions, but in need of much better implementation.
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    Whilst I agree with recycling, this bill pussyfoots around the edges. Recycling in Germany is 62% of all household waste, only beaten by Austria where 63% is recycled. The UK trails on 39%. Although this scheme exists in Germany, I am not convinced of it's effectiveness.

    Over 70% of all households in Germany have at least seven recycling bins. Each homeowner is legally required to separate out each material and place it in the appropriate recycling bin ready for collection by a fee-to-use private company. Collection doesn't just stop at local level, the recycled material is sent to privately owned factories where it is further sorted and recycled into new products, e.g. Molten plastics. The products are then sold on at a price subsidised by the state to companies to be made into a new complete products such as plastic bottles. Plastic bottles are sometimes washed and bought back by the company that first used them (a milk company could buy back it's old milk cartels to wash and reuse). The latter rarely happens.

    In the UK most recycled waste is sent abroad where it is either reused or dumped. In fact, only 20% of all recycled waste in the UK is recycled compared to 87% in Germany. Implementation of a policy as outlined in the bill above will not drive up recycling, it will merely add an extra cost to products sold in shops (decreasing demand, revenue and profits), and generate extra income for the government as not everyone will be bothered to recycle. Forget the 'pasty tax', this will be the 'milk tax.'

    For or recycling to increase in the UK the process by which we recycle needs to change. Councils need to do more in the form of several a bins to sort waste into and recycling companies need to be more active in recycling waste instead of shipping it abroad. The current campaigns are working as the UK is the fastest grower, in terms of household waste recycled, in the world.

    What can possibly be the justification for wanting to implement such a policy when, firstly, there has been no study conducted into it's effectiveness and secondly, when there is no plan for the recycled material after?

    Besides, each individual driving from their home to a large public building with recycling waste increases CO2 levels as a result of increased car use. It's counter-productive. Who will pay for these big recycling bins to refund the deposit?

    This doesn't seem to be thought through at all. Assume 30% of all deposits are being collected back (I'm being generous here as I think more people will want their money back so the figure would be nearer 60%) that won't cover the cost of a 'reverse vending machine' in every building with over 200m^2 floor area. This would include pretty much every office block, airport, shopping centre, leisure centre, supermarket, school, library, skyscraper, hotel, restaurant and a whole array of other buildings. The cost will be enormous and the government will be spending money just to increase recycling (which we don't even know will happen) to meet EU targets. The UK is on course to meet the EU target of 50% of household waste anyway without this measure.

    Another problem; I go to Tesco and buy a big 24 can pack of Coca Cola. I drink them all and currently put out the cans in the recycling bin ready for the council's weekly collections to collect. If I'm charged an extra £6 or so for this pack, not only am I paying more in taxes than I am for the actual drink, I need to make an additional journey to drop off the cans just to reclaim my money. If I'm doing my own recycling, why have the council at all? They will just be doing paper and cardboard. The whole thing is ridiculous. You are paying the same for a service that does less.
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    (Original post by Amber the Cat)
    Whilst I agree with recycling, this bill pussyfoots around the edges. Recycling in Germany is 62% of all household waste, only beaten by Austria where 63% is recycled. The UK trails on 39%. Although this scheme exists in Germany, I am not convinced of it's effectiveness.

    Over 70% of all households in Germany have at least seven recycling bins. Each homeowner is legally required to separate out each material and place it in the appropriate recycling bin ready for collection by a fee-to-use private company. Collection doesn't just stop at local level, the recycled material is sent to privately owned factories where it is further sorted and recycled into new products, e.g. Molten plastics. The products are then sold on at a price subsidised by the state to companies to be made into a new complete products such as plastic bottles. Plastic bottles are sometimes washed and bought back by the company that first used them (a milk company could buy back it's old milk cartels to wash and reuse). The latter rarely happens.

    In the UK most recycled waste is sent abroad where it is either reused or dumped. In fact, only 20% of all recycled waste in the UK is recycled compared to 87% in Germany. Implementation of a policy as outlined in the bill above will not drive up recycling, it will merely add an extra cost to products sold in shops (decreasing demand, revenue and profits), and generate extra income for the government as not everyone will be bothered to recycle. Forget the 'pasty tax', this will be the 'milk tax.'

    For or recycling to increase in the UK the process by which we recycle needs to change. Councils need to do more in the form of several a bins to sort waste into and recycling companies need to be more active in recycling waste instead of shipping it abroad. The current campaigns are working as the UK is the fastest grower, in terms of household waste recycled, in the world.

    What can possibly be the justification for wanting to implement such a policy when, firstly, there has been no study conducted into it's effectiveness and secondly, when there is no plan for the recycled material after?

    Besides, each individual driving from their home to a large public building with recycling waste increases CO2 levels as a result of increased car use. It's counter-productive. Who will pay for these big recycling bins to refund the deposit?

    This doesn't seem to be thought through at all. Assume 30% of all deposits are being collected back (I'm being generous here as I think more people will want their money back so the figure would be nearer 60%) that won't cover the cost of a 'reverse vending machine' in every building with over 200m^2 floor area. This would include pretty much every office block, airport, shopping centre, leisure centre, supermarket, school, library, skyscraper, hotel, restaurant and a whole array of other buildings. The cost will be enormous and the government will be spending money just to increase recycling (which we don't even know will happen) to meet EU targets. The UK is on course to meet the EU target of 50% of household waste anyway without this measure.

    Another problem; I go to Tesco and buy a big 24 can pack of Coca Cola. I drink them all and currently put out the cans in the recycling bin ready for the council's weekly collections to collect. If I'm charged an extra £6 or so for this pack, not only am I paying more in taxes than I am for the actual drink, I need to make an additional journey to drop off the cans just to reclaim my money. If I'm doing my own recycling, why have the council at all? They will just be doing paper and cardboard. The whole thing is ridiculous. You are paying the same for a service that does less.
    Hear Hear!
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    Hear Hear!
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    What about in situations where it's preferable for glass not to be used, rowdy pubs etc during football matches etc?
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    (Original post by Cryptographic)
    No it is the equivalent to a tax, and you get a rebate by giving it back. That way is a lot more pogical and tourist friendly, and is identical to the system widely used in the Caribbean. You do know what a ward is right? I can guarantee that every ward bar one or two in the UK has a shop. Maybe do it so that 90% of wards in a district must have one of these.
    I can think of a lot of wards near me that do not have a shop (at least not one that would sell these drinks).

    (Original post by 48:13)
    What about in situations where it's preferable for glass not to be used, rowdy pubs etc during football matches etc?
    Then they don't have to sell drinks in glass bottles?
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    (Original post by O133)
    Then they don't have to sell drinks in glass bottles?
    Sorry I misunderstood, thought this was standardisation as always glass, didn't notice the plastic alternative. Can you make one of those magic bottle machines for plastic as well?
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    (Original post by The Financier)

    (In it's current form)

    It does nothing to encourage the recycling of aluminium cans, and currently does not provide any notes on the potential economic impact of this scheme (for example, how much does a RVM cost, how many places would this need to be installed in, quantified information on how many plastic bottles are used a year (and thus a sense of scale of the problem) etc.). Good intentions, but in need of much better implementation.
    That horse… :laugh:

    I shall probably add something more on topic later but… that horse! :rofl:
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    (Original post by 48:13)
    Sorry I misunderstood, thought this was standardisation as always glass, didn't notice the plastic alternative. Can you make one of those magic bottle machines for plastic as well?
    Yes. In fact the same machine can do both (the ones in Germany did beer crates as well, but we don't really have them here so I didn't bother adding them in).
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    Decide on 2.3. Either it is included or it isn't. Personally I'd include it in the price so customers can see the cost of their goods. I'd be annoyed if I had to tot up the VAT on various items when shopping, and similarly for this. Given people's dislike of Ryanair (and similar) for having hidden charges that only appear when you get to the checkout, I don't think I'm alone. I also don't think a machine in so many shops is necessary. Better would be to stick them somewhere visible and you can just pop your bottles in rather than requiring shops to maintain something akin to a cash machine that can overflow.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Decide on 2.3. Either it is included or it isn't. Personally I'd include it in the price so customers can see the cost of their goods. I'd be annoyed if I had to tot up the VAT on various items when shopping, and similarly for this. Given people's dislike of Ryanair (and similar) for having hidden charges that only appear when you get to the checkout, I don't think I'm alone. I also don't think a machine in so many shops is necessary. Better would be to stick them somewhere visible and you can just pop your bottles in rather than requiring shops to maintain something akin to a cash machine that can overflow.
    The point on the locations is something we can look at in a second reading. We're sticking with the RVMs though.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The point on the locations is something we can look at in a second reading. We're sticking with the RVMs though.
    Why not scrap the machine idea altogether and instead use the money to implement a German style system covering everything form recycling at the home to how the recyled waste is managed afterwards instead of being sent abroad? The machines are an 'on the side' thing which does very little in the larger scheme of events.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    That horse… :laugh:

    I shall probably add something more on topic later but… that horse! :rofl:


    Don't laugh too much, you'll make your voice ho(a)rse.
 
 
 
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