If Homosexual relationships are acceptable, why aren't incestuous ones? (EDIT: CHAT)

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blissy

When there is so much pressure and the power dynamics are so obvious (e.g. uncle, nice, mother, son) a person's ability to make informed decisions is affected. I think it is a good idea to keep incest laws because it protects those that might be easily abused (and I'm not just talking about children).

hehe- if you're in love isn't your ability to make informed decisions affected anyway? In any case, whether incest is legal or not- if family members are inclined that way they will still abuse other family members, and can be convicted for it. The legallising of incest would allow those who do feel strongly for each other and do love each other to have a legal relationship.

Reply 61

riffraff

rahaydenuk

Well both are acceptable to me as long as practised between two consenting adults.

However, the idea of reproduction between two closely-related adults brings the rights of an unborn child into the equation (due to possible problems related to smaller gene pools etc.) and things get infinitely more complicated. This complication does not exist with homosexuality, so in that case, it's easier to make a judgement.

hmm- what if it is sister/sister or brother/brother?

Reply 62

DrSoySauce

This is from an American law web site, but I think its useful because people seem to have two different things in their minds when talking about incest:

All states prohibit a person from marrying his or her sibling, half-sibling, parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, child, grandchild, great-grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece and nephew.

So basically it is legal to marry your cousin, but not someone who you are sharing blood with.

ALSO: Thanks Blissy. That was what I meant, I just couldn't say it properly.

Reply 63

yawn1

Incest designates intimate relations between relatives or in-laws with a degree that prohibits marriage between them.

Connected to incest is any sexual abuse perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents entrusted to their care. The offence is compounded by the irreparable harm done to the physical and moral integrity of the young, who will remain scarred by it all their lives; and the violation of responsibilty for their upbringing.

To protect the damage that will be done it has to be forbidden by law so as not to create precedents that allow for dilution of the law.

Reply 64

shiny

DrSoySauce

This is from an American law web site, but I think its useful because people seem to have two different things in their minds when talking about incest:

So basically it is legal to marry your cousin, but not someone who you are sharing blood with.

ALSO: Thanks Blissy. That was what I meant, I just couldn't say it properly.

The laws on incest basically rephrase the text of Leviticus 18.

Reply 65

DrSoySauce

shiny

The laws on incest basically rephrase the text of Leviticus 18.

Well, all the Western countries were founded with Judeo-Christain moralities in mind, so that makes sense. But there are reasons for it on a social level as well...if people marry people who are too similar to them, then the society will close in on itself and without incorporating new ideas and evolving, it dies: just look the monarchies....

Reply 66

randdom

lou p

could this not be due to the fact that lesbians are, in general, significantly less promiscuous than other segments of soceity, not that their sex is 'healthier'? *can't be bothered going to fidn the actual statistics in psychology folder*

lou xxx

I think it is more likely to be due to the type of sex they have. During lesbian sex it is harder for diseases to be transmitted than through viginal or anal sex.

Reply 67

riffraff

randdom

I think it is more likely to be due to the type of sex they have. During lesbian sex it is harder for diseases to be transmitted than through viginal or anal sex.

so how do lesbians have sex then- if not virginal or anal?

Reply 68

Golden Maverick

riffraff

so how do lesbians have sex then- if not virginal or anal?

There are many websites that can answer this query, try google with safesearch off

Reply 69

Howard

riffraff

so how do lesbians have sex then- if not virginal or anal?

Of course they have vaginal sex. Except they use a "strap-on" (for obvious reasons) :rolleyes:

Reply 70

riffraff

Howard

Of course they have vaginal sex. Except they use a "strap-on" (for obvious reasons) :rolleyes:

and if they share strap-ons? then they will get STDs just like everyone else

Reply 71

DrSoySauce

riffraff

and if they share strap-ons? then they will get STDs just like everyone else

That's what condoms are for. Or didn't you take sex ed?

Anyway, back to the discussion:

Morally, there are reasons that incestual relationships are wrong. But you couldn't really say that for homosexual ones.

Reply 72

riffraff

DrSoySauce

yes I did take sex ed- but generally they teach you about hetero not homo sex.

so what moral reasons are there for banning incest- other than religion?

Reply 73

DrSoySauce

The relation of dependance is the worst feature of incest. It is perhaps the feature that contributes most to making incest seem worse than merely odd or disagreeable. If you look at a uncle/neice relationship, the power structure, the structure of dependency, is such that the propositioned niece is put in an unfair position.... Too much is at stake. The situation may be compared to that of the boss who insists on sexual relations with his secretary.

Reply 74

riffraff

DrSoySauce

so does that mean we should ban sexual relationships between bosses and their secretaries? in some cases then yes, incest can be seen to be harmful, but so can sexual relationships outside a family.

Reply 75

Amazing

riffraff

yes I did take sex ed- but generally they teach you about hetero not homo sex.

so what moral reasons are there for banning incest- other than religion?

As Blissy pointed out, it's not necessarily always children who are open to abuse - being in an incestuous relationship can put tremendous strains on peoples minds and well being, and not just because of society's general intolerance to such a relationship, but warping of even the most basic family unit, and the pressures you could be put under by an older relative.

However you could argue that, seen as all the incest laws really prevent is marriage then all it does is prevent those who are in a "proper" incestuous relationship where there is no abuse or such things going on, and that therefore the laws are doing nothing but stopping people who genuinely love each other in a romantic way from marrying. However, the majority of incest cases will involve abuse, and there simply has to be some kind of law that will "put people off" doing such things, even if technically all it does is stop marriage. It's like how there's going to be some extremely mature very young children out there who would genuinely be deemed to be capable of making the decision to have sex, but we keep our laws at 16 because the majority of such children won't have the maturity needed at all, and so serves as a deterrent.

Reply 76

Don Quixote

With incest, usually the ages of the two (or more) participants are unequal. If someone is older than someone else, there is a power imbalance (I think its a psychological thing) where age equates to superiority and authority. This, as well as deliberate (or manipulation of an individual can lead to incestuous activity bordering on rape/molestation, although not detected by the abused. Gene pools become more and more shallow, meaning there is less variation and therefore less ability to adapt to a virus and genetic diseases can be inherited as each person is a carrier (if it goes on).

Homosexuality is usually between two adults. Adults are expected to be independent and able to act for and protect themselves. Some aren't able to though, and get used, just like in incest, but are for some reason unaware of it and can't prevent it. If there were a solution, there would be another problem. There are so many consequences and different aspects to each subject. I think its called controversial and shaped by past prejudices that have continued on.

Reply 77

DrSoySauce

Don Quixote

You can marry your cousin in many places: it would be frowned upon, but legal. Most other inter-family relationships (like mother/son, aunt/nephew, etc.) have implied age differences. And I'm not saying that there is neccesarily anything psychologically wrong with people involved in incestuous relationships, but Freud did have many points.

Reply 78

ThornsnRoses

Lepr

If Homosexual relationships are acceptable, why aren't incestuous ones?

Incestuous relations are digusting, vile and are against the law. Homosexual relationships, are ones between two people of the same sex...they're not disgusting or against the law. Now, ask your question again.

Reply 79

DevilsDoor

Hmmm, perhaps incestual relationships would be more acceptable in other countries, to me they arent acceptable at all. Cousins can have relationships, incest is usually (correct me if Im wrong), parent/sibling. aunt/nephew, where there is a close blood tie. How anyone can condone a parent having a sexual relationship with their child, I really dont know, the relationship between parent and child is special, its not one to abuse. Its quite honestly sick and those that partake in that activity need some serious therapy.

Homosexuality is entirely different, it is as others have said, between consenting people of the same sex, not related, therefore it is accepted.