Bakery refuses to make "gay cake"; faces legal action

The problem really boils down to a law that, interpreted literally, totally restricts all liberty. Hence said law is always interpreted in the context of 'oppressed groups', whether ethnicity, sexuality, religion, whatever.

It's pretty easy to expose the horrible inconsistency of this (and of people on this thread adamant that the cake shop were in the wrong). Just imagine an atheist asking a cake shop owned by Muslims to have an image of Prophet Muhammad defecating on it. That scenario will probably short circuit some of the 'stupid' left's minds (i.e. the ones for whom every decision is to be judged a) only on moral grounds b) only their own morals are valid and c) only inconveniences to 'oppressed groups' are immoral)

They haven't turned anyone down based on their sexual orientation though so how is this a valid comparison?

There's a fairly clear difference between a pro-gay cake, and a graphic image like defecation. So, no - that doesn't expose hypocrisy unless you think that the cake that was rejected was asking to depict two people having sex (which wasn't the case)

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I think the law would also cover indirect discrimination as well as direct as per the laws on sex discrimination.

We shall see if the case comes to court but it is in line with previous laws.

It seems to be the belief that the law this violates is section 14 of the equality act.

The law is there to protect individuals from being denied a service due to the possession of a protected characteristic.

First and foremost let's do away with the idea that this is discrimination based on sexual orientation. It's not. At best it's discrimination based on political views.

Now have we actually had a case like this before setting precedent E. G. A printer refusing to print a poster for bringing back the death penalty? Because if not then I do start to wonder about whether or not there is a case to be made here.

Further the acid test for you: would it be right for a gay baker to refuse to bake a cake saying "no to gay marriage"?

There's a fairly clear difference between a pro-gay cake, and a graphic image like defecation. So, no - that doesn't expose hypocrisy unless you think that the cake that was rejected was asking to depict two people having sex (which wasn't the case)

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I don't think framing it as a political issue will fly. You can assert racial equality, feminism or religious equality as political as well but the courts can tell the difference.

Of course, the characteristics of the person doing the discrimination has no bearing on the discrimination itself. There is no provision in the law for it.

If its OK for a bakery to break the law if there is another one they can get their cakes from, I expect you will agree is OK to have a rat infested bakery as long as there is another vermin free bakery in the vicinity.

Support for gay marriage is a political view it is no means exclusively held by gay people in fact further it's not actually a view all gay people hold. So to frame the discrimination of these bakers as being one to do with the sexual orientation of the customer is absurd. That's what I'm saying.

Wait, there's a law saying you have to accept custom?
Well i didn't know that.

I am not clear as to why you think a subject is political because not everyone who could support it don't.

I am assuming you think supporting Man United is also a political topic because not everyone in Manchester supports them.

Way to miss the point. It's NOT a sexuality issue because your own personal sexuality is not actually dependent upon your support or lack of for same sex marriage. That's my point.

Forget defecation then. Just an image of the Prophet.

And if you're going to claim that there's still a big difference between that and a pro gay marriage slogan, then I think you're missing the point.

Unless there is a good reason for doing so, the government says (rightly so) that one cannot discriminate on the basis of:


Do you disagree with that in anyway? The government tries it's best for everyone, and they have correctly taken the stance of supporting the rights of homosexuals. The government shouldn't allow shops to prevent the sale of goods on the basis of sexuality. One argument used is that it is against Christianity (similar to any religion really). However, that belief is against another fundamental right of society.

The religious stance of disallowing portrayals of prophets does no harm to anybody. It's not really a discrimination against anything.

Nothing you stated bears any relevance to my example.

Feel free to answer my query though: if an atheist asks a Muslim cake shop owner to bake a cake depicting the Prophet Muhammad on it, is it acceptable for the cake shop owner to refuse?

I did answer. I answered why the bakery shouldn't be able to refuse like they did the real case. Then I said why a bakery should be able to refuse as per your own example.

And so can a Muslim cake shop owner refuse to print an image of Prophet Muhammad with a speech bubble saying he supports gay marriage, if requested to by a gay atheist?

The moment where the arbitrary lines collide into a maelstrom of hypocrisy . . .

When I said that he can refuse already, what makes it so different now.

Total opposite actually; no hypocrisy. I'm just carrying on with my previous stance that a bakery can refuse to put a prophet on a cake...

Your position is entirely hypocritical. It causes no more harm to a gay person to be refused a pro-gay marriage slogan with or without the prophet. However in the former case you are prepared to completely ignore the religious justification for refusal of service; in the latter, you suddenly elevate that religious justification to override the pro-gay customer's 'right' to a cake with the message he/she wants.