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    I know that these courses are largely just money making.

    However, did anyone go on any which were either cheap or very good?

    https://sjtpreparation.co.uk - anyone have anything to say about this one?


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    I've heard mixed things about courses.

    On the one hand it seemed to help people.

    On the other it meant some people ended up thinking wrong and didn't answer the way they should have as they had been taught a particular way and they stuck to it.

    I suppose if this course is run by docs who did it and were successful you may pick up some tips.

    Personally I think I'm just going to save my money and avoid courses. Plenty of my friends read GMC guidance and did practice test and got 40+.
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    I'm going to read GMC good practice and stuff but also going to sign up for one of these courses, I was actually thinking of doing the one you posted as it got advertised to us recently. They put such excessive weight on the SJT that I think it's best to be as prepared as you can be, even if it is all a bit of money spinning. Haven't picked a course to go on yet but my plan is to find one run by some F1s. Seeing as they're the only people who've sat the SJT at this point!
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    I'm going to read GMC good practice and stuff but also going to sign up for one of these courses, I was actually thinking of doing the one you posted as it got advertised to us recently. They put such excessive weight on the SJT that I think it's best to be as prepared as you can be, even if it is all a bit of money spinning. Haven't picked a course to go on yet but my plan is to find one run by some F1s. Seeing as they're the only people who've sat the SJT at this point!
    I'm definitely planing to use other resources, such as the monograph, the gmc guidelines and some ethics books.

    I'll also use the newer editions of the SJT books. But I was also thinking might as well give and SJT course a go as well, after all we want to smash it.


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    In my experience all SJT teaching is pretty much a waste of time. You can get a room full of consultants who teach ethics, teach professionalism... and they will disagree on most questions. There is no such thing as an expert on the SJT and anyone who claims to be one is going to be intrinsically very sketchy indeed. The only way to revise is to try to get inside the examiners heads themselves, and they are not (hopefully) offering these courses.

    For what its worth, our med school said you'd be stupid to pay for any external courses whatsoever and was very reluctant to provide any teaching on the subject as its the kind of thing you will know anyway... we've had the highest average result both years its been running.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    In my experience all SJT teaching is pretty much a waste of time. You can get a room full of consultants who teach ethics, teach professionalism... and they will disagree on most questions. There is no such thing as an expert on the SJT and anyone who claims to be one is going to be intrinsically very sketchy indeed. The only way to revise is to try to get inside the examiners heads themselves, and they are not (hopefully) offering these courses.

    For what its worth, our med school said you'd be stupid to pay for any external courses whatsoever and was very reluctant to provide any teaching on the subject as its the kind of thing you will know anyway... we've had the highest average result both years its been running.
    What is special about oxford then? What are you doing that no one else is?

    We have arguably the most medical ethics and medical humanities teaching of any other medical school, yet perform below average on the SJT.


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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    What is special about oxford then? What are you doing that no one else is?

    We have arguably the most medical ethics and medical humanities teaching of any other medical school, yet perform below average on the SJT.
    The entire teaching offered was a single session with a panel of consultants arguing about questions.

    I don't know what's different - i just mean to point out that it definitely isn't more teaching/courses.

    EDIT: further to this, if you check out last year's thread you'll see that some people did pre and post-study/practice online SJTs and i think without exception everyone did the same/worse afterwards.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    What is special about oxford then? What are you doing that no one else is?

    We have arguably the most medical ethics and medical humanities teaching of any other medical school, yet perform below average on the SJT.
    Smarter intake?
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    My theory for my school doing less well at sjt is because we only really do one type of written test, and not very many, so we are less exposed to the pressures of a new exam, and thus cope less well.

    Or it could go back to ucas points, would be interested in seeing if there is a correlation there.

    But back to the course thing, it is really up to you, but I can't imagine it increasing your score very much. Depends how nervous you are feeling. Perhaps try the practice sjt online and see how you do? If it's a good score then maybe don't worry!
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Smarter intake?
    Spoiler:
    Show


    But in all seriousness, I tend to agree. Oxford grads smash postgrad exams too. Imperial don't fare too badly in all of this either, but never better than the former. The courses aren't the major differentiator - indeed they've been sending students to London for years; it's that they're smarter than us, frankly.

    What's the best way of testing who the best doctors are (whatever that means)? I imagine that's why a national exam has been such a long time coming.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Smarter intake?
    Surely this. Surely.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Smarter intake?
    To some degree yes, but based on my quick comparison average tariff score does not correlate to SJT performance.

    My theory was about the make up of final year with finals, and medical schools who have an exam/assessment light final year perform worse on the SJT, due to lack of motivation or something.

    EDIT: actually there may be something in this, if I got back and look at the 2008/09 and 2009/10 entry data, as those are the cohorts in question.

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    I was gonna say. For those as sad as I am, Oxford, Cambridge, UCL and Edinburgh had the highest average SJT scores in 2014. They were all in the top 5 UCAS entry tariffs both in 2009 and in 2010. Correlation? :dontknow:

    Maybe the format of final year/motivation levels have a part to play. Though one would have thought that ending up with your last choice deanery - or worse, without a job - was motivation enough... I for one have no qualms accepting that there are probably cohorts out there smarter than and better at taking exams than me (on average). Indeed, I guess that's the original point of this thread!
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    To some degree yes, but based on my quick comparison average tariff score does not correlate to SJT performance.

    My theory was about the make up of final year with finals, and medical schools who have an exam/assessment light final year perform worse on the SJT, due to lack of motivation or something.

    EDIT: actually there may be something in this, if I got back and look at the 2008/09 and 2009/10 entry data, as those are the cohorts in question.
    That would be an odd correlation - i can't be sure about other med schools, but here there is 0 overlap between SJT and finals and I remember feeling that the SJT was just getting in the way, that I had no time for it.

    An alternative theory: the more teaching you have about the SJT, the more the over-think questions, the less you run with instinctive common sense, and the worse you do. Teaching negatively affects results. This fits in with the above, should a correlation emerge: if you're busy before the SJT you're less likely to spend weeks preparing for it.
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    I think teaching may be part of it. Apparently my school did well in the initial pilot, but once it became official we dropped to the bottom!

    You have to think like the examiners. Not anyone else (except yourself, you are probably right). So do that practice paper over and over again and read gmc guidance like nobody's business. I have got some practice question books but I'm dubious of their usefulness. In fact if I disagree with a question I presume they're wrong and more or less continue as I am (unless it is clear I am very wrong and against gmc guidance).
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    (Original post by Blatant Troll)
    I was gonna say. For those as sad as I am, Oxford, Cambridge, UCL and Edinburgh had the highest average SJT scores in 2014. They were all in the top 5 UCAS entry tariffs both in 2009 and in 2010. Correlation? :dontknow:

    Maybe the format of final year/motivation levels have a part to play. Though one would have thought that ending up with your last choice deanery - or worse, without a job - was motivation enough... I for one have no qualms accepting that there are probably cohorts out there smarter than and better at taking exams than me (on average). Indeed, I guess that's the original point of this thread!
    Can I have a link to SJT results by medical school?
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Can I have a link to SJT results by medical school?
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6f8ej26ke...2014_FINAL.pdf

    Page 9, they appear in alphabetical order.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6f8ej26ke...2014_FINAL.pdf

    Page 9, they appear in alphabetical order.
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    Anecdotal but I've definitely been told you can overprepare, meaning you don't answer in the way the questions are designed, and end up doing worse. Some preparation for sure, but I'm not going to go beyond familiarising myself with the format of the questions and thinking through a few preparation questions. Maybe this is misplaced confidence... time will tell!
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    (Original post by lekky)
    Anecdotal but I've definitely been told you can overprepare, meaning you don't answer in the way the questions are designed, and end up doing worse. Some preparation for sure, but I'm not going to go beyond familiarising myself with the format of the questions and thinking through a few preparation questions. Maybe this is misplaced confidence... time will tell!
    I do agree with this.

    I think the importance is identifying which SJT theme they are asking about, and answer with those principles in mind/common sense/logical judgement.

    However, it is too high risk to leave it down to limited preparation. I cant just accept getting 38 or 39, iv worked too hard thus far for it to all count for nothing, on the basis of an average score in the SJT.

    What is the point of getting a high ranking, additional degree ect, if that still may not be enough to get your job of choice?

    I do think and hope that appropriate and directed preparation can help.
 
 
 
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