Is The Matrix Real?

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SleepingAwake
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#581
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#581
Well said, Conrad. You know, I can relate to the way you think. Perhaps we are at a similar juncture in life.

The only thing that impedes some of my progress, well not impedes it; just takes away some of the fire, is when I reflect on what I THOUGHT I knew a year ago, and how in some things I was correct, but others, still so blindly backwards.

I gotta tell you, I used to think that people 'who worried to much about things' were goofy. I don't know when I changed, but I guess now I am too.

Somewhere along the line, I started realizing that it wasn't just that I lacked knowledge- some of the knowledge I had recieved was flawed. Well, lets not mince words. It was downright bogus.

Most of the common operating principles today are nothing but repetitive tradition, for lack of better words. So burned in to society, that no one even questions them. What happens to truth (or its imposter) when we fail the responsibility of seeking it, proving it, holding it up to scrutiny on a regular basis?

I read a post in another forum today about a guy (He's a PHD, no arrests, church-goer, all around good guy) who was denied a permit to carry a handgun. He was all wrapped up in how unfair it was, explaining how he would have to go and try to fight the system on its rules, when I realized that...

...The US constitution grants all US citizens the right to bear arms. It says that (loosely paraphrased) ...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. How could it be any clearer. Shall Not Be Infringed.

Therefore, there should not be any process to obtain permission to carry a gun. Its already an inailenable right! A right we 'free' American idiots over here have allowed to be slowly stripped from us.

Control. I live in a system of control. I know that's just one small example. But many small examples make one big scary picture.

Well, 'nough preaching for one night.
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SIMULATION
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#582
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#582
The simulacrum is never what hides the truth - it is the truth that hides the fact that there is none.

The simulacrum is true.

- Ecclesiastes

Baudrillard refers to the 'hyperreal' being created when the simulacrum (a copy of a copy) hides the fact that the original no longer exists.

Just like in object-oriented computer programming where an abstract model (an object - the original) is used to create instances (copies).

The Matrix is not real - this IS reality but the philosophy of the matrix can be seen to apply to life. We see the circle of life in the Matrix as the dead are liquified and fed to the living. Baudrillard refers to mummification and cryonisation (both of which take matter out of the chain - or circle = 3.14).

Agent Smith is also wrong when he states that the machines 'lacked the programming language' to define the perfect world.

Church's Thesis (after the American mathematician Alonzo Church) states basically that all programming languages are EQUALLY POWERFUL.

This means that anything you can do with one language you can do with another. If you can disprove this you will get the Turing award.

Speaking of Turing machines IF the matrix did actually exist it would more than likely have to be a Turing machine (an infinitely long tape of binary with a read/write head moving in both directions). Whether or not our REAL universe is a Turing machine is debatable. However, since we do not have infinite memory we computists use von Neumann hardware. Try getting the matrix to run on one of those!

However I do agree with the film in the sense that there is a biological system inside of a binary system (two completely different branches of science in my mind).

However, I'll finish with the quote 'it is now impossible to isolate the process of the real, or to prove the real' so this thread could go on forever.

For all you people out there that believe the matrix is real, amisulphride (or solian) will re-balance those chemical equations in your brain.
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JabberJaw
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#583
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#583
The Matrix is about the process of waking up.
Paid programming has defined the way we live.
Change your mind to a new way of thinking.
Everyone has a path or design to follow
As you walk along your path ,you can sense things that are not right.
Modify your design template.
Life is about expressing what we are & who we are.


Become What You Are
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deek-2k3
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#584
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#584
you guys are so sad the fact that be4 the matrix came out none of you would even question if we lived in some made up world and anyone who did are crazy.
Alot of you are basing your facts on a sci-fi movie(science-fiction)
the truth is that we live in the world we can leave at any time we could kill ourselves if you honestly believed your self to an extent that you would do such a thing or go around comitin crimes cause some actor does it in a movie... But we understand what is real and what is not and that movies are changed to get the audience more and more in to the film...
but u still question our reality knowing the fact it was the brainchild of two directors... so what do u say to that the wachaski brothers are the Ones are our Neo's? even if we did live in a matrix and we were programed as some ppl have suggested the film The Matrix would have neva been released as we would start question our so called "matrix" and our owners "robots aliens whateva" would have never allowed this cause the truth would have been unravelled eventually by some one but if the film was never released then we would have never questioned are reality...

and if anyone thinks the are some brilliant computer hacker that has hacked the matrix then go for it hack this place... if you can hack a matrix this would be a sinch
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Sire
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(Original post by deek-2k3)
you guys are so sad the fact that be4 the matrix came out none of you would even question if we lived in some made up world and anyone who did are crazy.
Alot of you are basing your facts on a sci-fi movie(science-fiction)
the truth is that we live in the world we can leave at any time we could kill ourselves if you honestly believed your self to an extent that you would do such a thing or go around comitin crimes cause some actor does it in a movie... But we understand what is real and what is not and that movies are changed to get the audience more and more in to the film...
but u still question our reality knowing the fact it was the brainchild of two directors... so what do u say to that the wachaski brothers are the Ones are our Neo's? even if we did live in a matrix and we were programed as some ppl have suggested the film The Matrix would have neva been released as we would start question our so called "matrix" and our owners "robots aliens whateva" would have never allowed this cause the truth would have been unravelled eventually by some one but if the film was never released then we would have never questioned are reality...

and if anyone thinks the are some brilliant computer hacker that has hacked the matrix then go for it hack this place... if you can hack a matrix this would be a sinch
couldn't agree more, but for arguments sake. 80% of all fiction is based on truth
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SleepingAwake
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#586
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#586
(Original post by deek-2k3)
you guys are so sad the fact that be4 the matrix came out none of you would even question if we lived in some made up world and anyone who did are crazy.
Alot of you are basing your facts on a sci-fi movie(science-fiction)
the truth is that we live in the world we can leave at any time we could kill ourselves if you honestly believed your self to an extent that you would do such a thing or go around comitin crimes cause some actor does it in a movie... But we understand what is real and what is not and that movies are changed to get the audience more and more in to the film...
but u still question our reality knowing the fact it was the brainchild of two directors... so what do u say to that the wachaski brothers are the Ones are our Neo's? even if we did live in a matrix and we were programed as some ppl have suggested the film The Matrix would have neva been released as we would start question our so called "matrix" and our owners "robots aliens whateva" would have never allowed this cause the truth would have been unravelled eventually by some one but if the film was never released then we would have never questioned are reality...

and if anyone thinks the are some brilliant computer hacker that has hacked the matrix then go for it hack this place... if you can hack a matrix this would be a sinch
Well...of course it's not real as the movie portrays it!

I think anyone who believes that should definitely undergo a Psych-Eval.

Perhaps you are missing the point

I think the majority of individuals of sound mind posting to this site are not trying to further the claim that the literal Matrix of the movies is real, but are instead sounding off about the truths in our reality that were displayed via alegory in the movies.

Using the definition of the Matrix as 'control', then one could say we really do live in a Matrix...of sorts. There are many things about our world the average 'citizen', for lack of a better term, will never see. In large part, we live as we must, under some kind of government control, not privy to everything that happens in those governments, and certainly not aware of all life's choices, as many, through 'laws for our protection' and 'laws for the greater good' are kept from us. On the flipside, choices we can see are often denied us, again falling victim to someone's 'honerable agenda' of what is 'best for us'.

The Matrix trilogy symbolizes freedom restrained, and was a fascinating vehicle to open one's mind to forms of control being practiced on him/her in the present day reality we call life.

You don't have the opportunity to put a movie in front of the world, and just make up some shallow, one dimensionall entertainment flick(well, some movie makers do). Its impossible to create a story, without your personal views on politics, religion, world views, etc... getting into the story.

Those who are successful in any form of major media have learned to use their stage presence to further the ideas they wish to share with the rest of the world. Most people with a brain crave an entertainment that requires a certain amount of thought and wisdom to figure out.

Look at comedian George Carlin. Everyone knows who he is. He's funnier than &%@#! But listen to his routines sometimes. He definitely has a message to share about government control. His jokes simply set the stage to draw the listener in, and prepare him/her to recieve a message.

Apply this level of awareness to the next entertainment 'thing' you see or hear, and chances are, if there's an intelligent, driven man, woman, or group behind its production, you'll get their agenda. I mean, if I had the public eye, I'd share my views too. Wouldn't you?
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ffffeee 555
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#587
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#587
i cannot say if the matrix is real or not but there is one thing i can say, there is more to the movie than might seem. I believe the movie is metaphoric on purpose to demonstrate metaphoric or partial truth in the movie.

i believe the movie symbolizes life and its stages and the truth behind these stages that we all eventually find out.

the first movie was about when we were young and were worried about being cool allowing "cool" to control us. but as we get older we are shown the truth by ourselves (this is when morpheus shows neo the truth morpheus can be within yourself or be an actual person in your life, often times a parent giving advice to their child b4 they go to collage or beyond in the "real world") and soon (entering collage) find true freedom in which we regularily express who we are disregarding any standards of "cool" this is where we begin to follow our true calling in life or wat we like doing.

this is where we remember that "we r in control of our own lives and don't believe in any of this fate cr**" We begin to follow wat we really want in life, money, love, freedom, etc.. any of these things.

then the third movie i believe is about death. When we finally begin to slow down. and even though we may become blind (metaphorically speaking) we can still see the matrix(our society or childhood) in the real world (this is the part where neo becomes blind but can see agent smith in gold light) and begin facing our biggest enemy, (our own minds and conscience) agent smith, who all along the movie (our lives) has become more a part of us and vice versa [as agent smith in the end gains the power of neo and the oracle, (our biggest ally)] we must finally face off with him when we face the prospect of death
(this is that really cool fight scene with neo and agent smith)
we can only defeat him in the end by giving our own life (as neo does in the end) but as the oracle says, "we might see him again someday" (which might infere him coming back as his son or at least meaning that he would be reflected in his son)just an idea

the part in the second movie where trinity dies is where some one might have a fight with their love (and trinity says "sorry" right b4 she dies but says in the third movie that she regrets saying that b/c wat she really meant was to say was how much she loves him.) but ofcourse neo saves her as one might in a way save their love from death (or seperation).

And in the end they make it up to each other and tell each other how much they loved eachother.

srry about the im type.

this is all just an idea for now and is still being formed and changed.

I would also like for once a reply from anyone who can relate to wat im talking about

and if there's anyone out there who could get me out (if it is true) im sure i could be a valuable asset to u in the real world.

________________________________ ____________________________

"The most important thing is to never stop questioning" -Albert Einstien.
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ffffeee 555
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*Sorry for being so long but i think you will find it interesting*
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SleepingAwake
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#589
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#589
ffffeee 555, great interpretation. I must admit, I never considered that view until I read your post. The similarity to life-stages is rather alarming, isn't it.

I can totally see your point. And yes I relate. Whether or not others post replies to you, having felt as you do, I have to believe there are many others who also would relate.

We spend our entire lives (it seems) chasing 'coolness', and running away from the very things we later discover bring true fulfillment. Things like family, love, faith, honor, and selflessness.

Having become a father 10 years ago, I am learning to understand how my parents had so much patience with me. I didn't listen to them very much, and I now know I will have to be patient with my kids as they go through their life journey.

Growing older, and learning right from wrong does not ever entirely kill off the 'old you'. That is what I relate to most now. (How you symbolized the fight between Neo and Smith). I grapple daily with this as my older self struggles to fight off the desires of the younger immature self.

Great post, man!
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Conrad
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Yeah I hear ya loud and clear. I know exactly what you mean. I am currently in my transitional stage in life, at least I think so. I know how I used to be, arrogant and young and carefree, and now I am trying to accept my new life as a future businessman. I am having troubles with my girlfriend right now, troubles in deciding what is right for me in a lot of aspects of my life. I am really trying to grasp a purpose of my life, I think I know where my life is going and I know what I will most likely end up doing with the rest of my life, but I don't know if that is where I want my road to be ending when I am done with this life. I just hope that when my mid-life crisis occurs, I will be so into the way my life is at that current point in time, that I can easily look past my regretful thoughts and continue my current path. This transition point is hell enough for me, why would I ever want to go through another one in my life, ever? I really need to find myself before I can really try to answer any of my own questions, until then, I am just in this world, trying to make it to the next passing day. This reality is a major dissapointment in my eyes.
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the 1
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(Original post by Conrad)
Yeah I hear ya loud and clear. I know exactly what you mean. I am currently in my transitional stage in life, at least I think so. I know how I used to be, arrogant and young and carefree, and now I am trying to accept my new life as a future businessman. I am having troubles with my girlfriend right now, troubles in deciding what is right for me in a lot of aspects of my life. I am really trying to grasp a purpose of my life, I think I know where my life is going and I know what I will most likely end up doing with the rest of my life, but I don't know if that is where I want my road to be ending when I am done with this life. I just hope that when my mid-life crisis occurs, I will be so into the way my life is at that current point in time, that I can easily look past my regretful thoughts and continue my current path. This transition point is hell enough for me, why would I ever want to go through another one in my life, ever? I really need to find myself before I can really try to answer any of my own questions, until then, I am just in this world, trying to make it to the next passing day. This reality is a major dissapointment in my eyes.
i just thought id write summat since nothing has happened in days
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thefish_uk
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(Original post by the 1)
i just thought id write summat since nothing has happened in days
well that's nice

keeping up an intelligent philosophical conversation
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NickNack
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#593
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#593
(Original post by thefish_uk)
well that's nice

keeping up an intelligent philosophical conversation
without phylosophy, life would be like a broken pencil...




...pointless
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eram
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What is a dimension?

When we say that the space we live in has three dimensions, what does that mean?
When we describe the size of an object, or of a space like a room, we use three numbers: the height, the width and the depth. The height, width and depth of a room are numbers that can vary independently from one another. That's one way to see that space is three dimensional. Another way is that we need three numbers to exactly locate ourselves on the Earth: longitude, latitude and elevation above sea level. That's another argument for space being three-dimensional. That's what we see.
When mathematicians or physicists talk about dimensions, they mean the number of independent coordinates needed to specify any point in a given space. The tradition is to label these three coordinates (x,y,z), with z usually denoting the up direction or the direction of height.
One of the big discoveries of early classical physics was the similarity between the forces of gravity and electrostatics. The gravitational force between two planets and the electrostatic force between two electric charges were both observed to vary as the inverse square of the distance between the two objects. So if r is your distance from the center of a planet, then the gravitational force of that planet on you will vary like r-2. If you go twice as far away, the force will only be one fourth as strong.
But the number of coordinates in a mathematical equation is easy to increase on paper. When the gravitational and electrostatic equations are solved in a space with D dimensions, then the force varies with distance like r1-D. (Notice this gives the right answer when D=3.)
This gives physicists an interesting way to do fine measurements of the numbers of dimensions of space. They can look at the gravitational force and put quantitative limits on any funny behavior that would come from possible extra dimensions.
If three space dimensions is consistent with current gravitational physics and interior decorating, then why look more closely at the force law? Because there are ways that extra dimensions of space can become undetectable or at least very difficult to detect by our world, so we can eat our cake and hide it, too, so to speak.

Why is time a dimension?
According to Isaac Newton, time was universal for all objects no matter their motion relative to one another. This point of view held until Einstein turned it on its head, because he was bothered that it wasn't consistent with the propagation of light as electromagnetic radiation.
Einstein's special theory of relativity, which makes classical mechanics consistent with classical electromagnetism, treats time like a coordinate in a unified spacetime geometry. If time is a coordinate, then instead of three coordinates to describe a point in space, we have four coordinates to describe an event in spacetime. So that's what is meant by saying that our spacetime has four dimensions. Usually we label them (t,x,y,z).
Special relativity is an approximate theory that is a good approximation when we can neglect the force of gravity and the acceleration of observers in the system. Einstein's full theory of spacetime, called general relativity, takes the concept of a four dimensional spacetime and extends it to a curved spacetime, where time and space make one united fabric that is curved and stretched and twisted by the distribution of matter and energy in the fabric.
From a mathematical point of view, both special and general relativity can be extended easily to higher space dimensions. If we have D dimensions of space and one time, then we say there are d = D + 1 dimensions of spacetime. The equations of motion can be solved and classified in d dimensions just like in four spacetime dimensions.
Why have more dimensions?

It's not so hard to construct higher dimensional worlds using the Einstein equations. But the question is then: WHY BOTHER?
It's because physicists dream of a unified theory: a single mathematical framework in which all fundamental forces and units of matter can be described together in a manner that is internally consistent and consistent with current and future observation.
And it turns out that having extra dimensions of space makes it possible to build candidates for such a theory.

Extra dimensions in string theory
Superstring theory is a possible unified theory of all fundamental forces, but superstring theory requires a 10 dimensional spacetime, or else bad quantum states called ghosts with unphysical negative probabilities become part of the spectrum.
Now this creates a problem in d=10 string theory: how to get the d=4 world as we know it out of the theory.
So far there are two main proposals:
1. Roll up the extra dimensions into some very tiny but nonetheless interesting space of their own. This is called Kaluza Klein compactification.
2. Make the extra dimensions really big, but constrain all the matter and gravity to propagate in a three dimensional subspace called the three brane. (For an analogy, your computer screen could be said to be a two brane of three dimensional space.) These types of theories are called braneworlds.
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curryADD
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#595
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that was VERY very long
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Nastyboy59
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#596
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I dont know if the matrix is real or or if it is called the matrix but if there is such a this there is prob no way to get out regardless of what we do


now in the case there is a matrix and there is a way to get i might i wanna get out or "Unplugged" but maybe not u grow so accustom to this world u jus wanna stay in this world well this my first and prob only post if u any of u would like to get in contact wit me my AIM is bridude1353 And my e-mail is [email protected](i try not to be to conspicus huh ) and my msn messanger is me e-mail so i bitd u addu or how ever u spell it us dumb amricans huh see i dont even know how to spell my countrys name cya
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thefish_uk
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Eram,

Don't they think there's something like ten or eleven dimensions in total? I watched a TV programme on parallel universes. It's all extremely confusing really, they thought all the universes could be floating around and black holes go between them, or something.
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GK1
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#598
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#598
STOP THE WORLD.... I WANNA GET OFF IT...

gee, i wud be happy if that were to happen...
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thefish_uk
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(Original post by GK1)
STOP THE WORLD.... I WANNA GET OFF IT...
gee, i wud be happy if that were to happen...
What's that got to do with the Matrix or philosophy or anything, lol.

I haven't bothered to read through the posts but I may as well contribute my opinion. I think that the probability of us living inside the Matrix is the same as us not, because there is no way to tell because there is no "outside world" to compare it with. Unless the Matrix has a bug. The anomaly!
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Tribi18
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#600
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#600
No it isn't
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