The Arsenal Thread XX

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I'd certainly agree with that, very much so in the early stages of the game. However I don't think that intensity Dortmund opened the game with remained beyond the half hour mark. Arsenal were able to get on the ball, and advance further up the pitch as the match went on. Neither of Dortmund's goals came after a period sustained pressure, clever passing combination or a some kind of wonder striker, they were as much due to defensive errors as quality, particularly the first goal. I don't think that should have been enough for Arsenal's loss (which is the context of this thread) to be dismissed as a great Dortmund performance. Perhaps if we were discussing a plucky underdog's victory I would have said it was brilliant/great.

I mean exactly what I wrote, they had 44% possession significantly less than they would normally have in game. In ceding possession, tactically or otherwise, Arsenal were not deprived of the benefits that possession brings. Arsenal are team which likes to keep hold of the ball( they are certainly geared towards requiring the ball), and to get the majority of the team to advanced areas. In the game was a whole Dortmund did not deny them either of those things.

Neither did I, hence why I didn't write it. However Arsenal had their chances, it wasn't a defensive shut out. Welbeck miscued at the far post, the chance just before half time, he had another after a good chance after a turn late on. Those are just notable chances for the main striker. Was it possible for Arsenal to score and should Welbeck have at least demanded a good save from those positions. I would say yes to both of them.

I didn't say you write it used the wrong word, however, it was your "not defensively solid" notion I was contesting, which

Which is the point I was contesting. Arkasia was suggesting that regardless of Arsenal being poor, Dortmund's performance was one of such quality Arsenal could not have won the game regardless. I simply don't see it that way.

I don't really see the point of dissecting a post into little pieces unless you take point for point or unit of meaning for unit of meaning (rather than the starting sentences of each paragraph, which don't represent the whole point, and only focusing on them rather than the point as a whole), it doesn't really reflect what I wrote. But anyway, my main point was simply to contest the notion that Dortmund were "in no way" great/brilliant, regardless of your convo with Arkasia, and not to necessarily contradict all of your points/implications (I don't disagree with all of them). I just don't think that Arsenal being poor or potentially able to win with a different approach to the game takes anything away from Dortmund's performance (even though I agree that similarly, Dortmund's performance is no excuse for Arsenal's), so that was the whole point. I guess it's rather subjective though. But while we're discussing it:

Neither did I, hence why I didn't write it. However Arsenal had their chances, it wasn't a defensive shut out. Welbeck miscued at the far post, the chance just before half time, he had another after a good chance after a turn late on. Those are just notable chances for the main striker. Was it possible for Arsenal to score and should Welbeck have at least demanded a good save from those positions. I would say yes to both of them.

It was your "not defensively solid" notion I was contesting, which became clear in my whole paragraph (I used the wrong word(ing) however). I'd say there's some spectrum between "defensive shut out", "defensively solid" and "not defensively solid", so not showing a defensive shut out does not mean that the performance as a whole wasn't solid. I'd say the overall performance was considering how little chances they allowed Arsenal (ofc debatable how much this can be accredited to BVB and how much to Arsenal) and how they isolated Welbeck for the most part, despite the few chances he had (although I'd say only one of those was a sitter).

I mean exactly what I wrote, they had 44% possession significantly less than they would normally have in game. In ceding possession, tactically or otherwise, Arsenal were not deprived of the benefits that possession brings. Arsenal are team which likes to keep hold of the ball( they are certainly geared towards requiring the ball), and to get the majority of the team to advanced areas. In the game was a whole Dortmund did not deny them either of those things.

I don't think the possession stats necessarily correlate with the other aspect of your point. The "benefits that possession brings" aren't automatic and not worth a lot if most of your passing lanes are blocked, the players in advanced areas can't be reached and your build-up play is more of less suffocated by the opponent. So for the most part of the game, BVB did deny them the possession "benefits". On top of that, iirc Dortmund were dominating possession until they dropped intensity in the latter stages of the game; it was only from around the middle of the second half that Arsenal got longer and longer spells of possession; which was in the last 10 or so minutes further facilitated by Dortmund switching to a formation with 2 defensively-minded CMs/DMs and another DM-CB hybrid between midfield and back 4 and mostly focused on not condeding, allowing Arsenal more time on the ball. Again, Arsenal could have dealt with this better and avoided some of these problems, but that doesn't mean that Dortmund weren't great, both in their approach to the opponent and in general.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9461

New God Flow

phhwwwoooaaarrrr fizZEL SIT DOWN FAM

Reply 9462

swarly

rah one of those posts so in depth and long, you wonder what someone does for a living

Reply 9463

Lyrical Prodigy

Arsenal u-19s have just beaten BVB u-19s 2-0 in Germany. Unreal banter from Arsenal there.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9464

shawn_o1

Original post by Lyrical Prodigy

Arsenal u-19s have just beaten BVB u-19s 2-0 in Germany. Unreal banter from Arsenal there.

I wonder if the youth team share the same flight with the seniors, Wenger and the ~~backroom~~ (i mean coaching) staff?

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9465

Lyrical Prodigy

Original post by shawn_o1

I wonder if the youth team share the same flight with the seniors, Wenger and the ~~backroom~~ (i mean coaching) staff?

Of course they share the same flight. You think Wenger will let the club pay for separate flights when there's no 2 for 1 special offer?

Reply 9466

WeOnlyLiveOnce

Original post by Lyrical Prodigy

Hehehe

It's not the fact that we lost, its' the manner in which we did. What also irritates me is the fact key players for them were out. Anyways, we move on and get ready for the next game.

Yeah fair enough. Poor performance but im sure you'll bounce back against Villa.

Reply 9467

jam278

Original post by Lyrical Prodigy

Arsenal u-19s have just beaten BVB u-19s 2-0 in Germany. Unreal banter from Arsenal there.

Loooooool BVB did this on purpose.

Reply 9468

Numan786

I'm not feeling too confident against Aston villa I mean they generally play well against London teams.

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Reply 9469

Adil96m

Benteke back in training aswell

Reply 9470

Lyrical Prodigy

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

Yeah fair enough. Poor performance but im sure you'll bounce back against Villa.

No high hopes there.

Original post by jam278

Loooooool BVB did this on purpose.

Trust me.

Original post by Numan786

I'm not feeling too confident against Aston villa I mean they generally play well against London teams.

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This.

Original post by Adil96m

Benteke back in training aswell

And this.

Reply 9471

Kim-Jong-Illest

Surely Benteke wont play?

Reply 9472

shawn_o1

~~There's a "the arsenal thread" active right now, surely the real one was 10 years ago?~~
Sorry, looked like one of the thread posts was deleted by the mods (specifically, the "I'm your dad" nonsense :wink:

)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9473

swarly

Guys I just met Drogba on Edgware Road and bought an ounce from him. He asked me where Topman was, so I told him, but also told him there was a sale on at River Island. Oh and I was smoking a fine Cuban cigar at the time, not relevant, just wanted to mention cuz well you'know.

Spoiler

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9474

username1315644

Original post by qua

I did actually read the whole post I just quoted the first part because it saves a significant amount of space. I haven't replied to every point, just the ones I feel are relevant to my original point. I'd agree the wasting of chances would mainly be attributed to Mkhitaryan rather than Dortmund as a whole. I don't think its worth addressing within the wider point of chances that were squandered in reference to Arsenal being punished for their mistakes.

But anyway, my main point was simply to contest the notion that Dortmund were "in no way" great/brilliant, regardless of your convo with Arkasia, and not to necessarily contradict all of your points/implications (I don't disagree with all of them). I just don't think that Arsenal being poor or potentially able to win with a different approach to the game takes anything away from Dortmund's performance (even though I agree that similarly, Dortmund's performance is no excuse for Arsenal's), so that was the whole point. I guess it's rather subjective though. But while we're discussing it:

Fair enough. I don't think there is any need to labour this, but I do think the post quoted (Arkasia's) is inherently relevant to a response.

I didn't think Dortmund were sloppy or that they didn't limit Arsenal, but the didn't stop them. Arsenal did have chances in the game, which was my point, and they didn't fall to unfavourable players. Whether they were created or gifted doesn't matter in answering the question could Arsenal have scored.

I don't think there automatic but they are there in a way they cannot be if you don't have the ball. Arsenal cannot play the game they practise week in week out without the ball, they are a passing and possession based side. When you have the ball the onus falls on you to do something with it.

On top of that, iirc Dortmund were dominating possession until they dropped intensity in the latter stages of the game; it was only from around the middle of the second half that Arsenal got longer and longer spells of possession;

Well for the first goal, Arsenal were high up the pitch and Dortmund's highest player was Immobile fairly deep in his own half, I think. That's a fair change from the opening minutes where Arsenal were pinned in and around their own box for sustained periods, that was just before the half way point and before Arsenal were chasing the game.

which was in the last 10 or so minutes further facilitated by Dortmund switching to a formation with 2 defensively-minded CMs/DMs and another DM-CB hybrid between midfield and back 4 and mostly focused on not condeding, allowing Arsenal more time on the ball.

I don't think Arsenal can complain about that though. The tactic was made viable by taking the lead in the game.

Again, Arsenal could have dealt with this better and avoided some of these problems, but that doesn't mean that Dortmund weren't great, both in their approach to the opponent and in general.

Perhaps my wording of 'in now great' was incorrect. From a Dortmund point of view, they there succeeded in all aspect of the their game plan, so all their aims were completed successfully and in that respect it was a great performance.

Original post by New God Flow

phhwwwoooaaarrrr fizZEL SIT DOWN FAM

Your qua post monitoring is bordering on fetish tbh.

Reply 9475

jam278

bare in mind that SUG was high as **** when posting that.

Original post by swarly

Spoiler

Zurich is getting trolled like a bitch.

Reply 9476

Kenan and Kel

Original post by swarly

Spoiler

Why do you care so much?

Reply 9477

swarly

Original post by Kenan and Kel

Why do you care so much?

you know when cuffin season comes a guy can't help but get all emosh and shizz you feel me?

Reply 9478

qwerty_mad

I always said we should have stuck with Gervinho a little longer. He could have been one heck of a player for us now.

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Reply 9479

Numan786

I'm so jacked on morphine right now after I found out my two gums were infected and had to be scraped after tooth extraction still fill some slight pain tho :frown: