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UKIP back petition for EU referendum before November- is it a transfer of power Watch

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    So Labour & the Libdems have said they will only back an EU referendum if there is a transfer of power. In November the UK is losing the veto power of 43 legal areas. UKIP has backed a petition calling for a referendum before November

    UKIP response- http://www.ukip.org/patrick_o_flynn_...ut_to_brussels

    Petition- https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitio...y-1st-nov-2014

    So is this a transfer of power that should trigger the Libdems to vote in Parliament for a referendum? should we be having a vote when major changes like this happen?
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    This is in the Lisbon Treaty which is already ratified.
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    After November, we cannot leave the EU, even if we vote to. It's now or never.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2554723
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    After November, we cannot leave the EU, even if we vote to. It's now or never.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2554723
    So Scotland would remain in the EU if they go independent?

    So the rUK could stop paying its subscription, withdraw its officials, ignore EU law and yet still benefit from all the trade deals without the expense of setting up a gazillion bilateral agreements?

    Sounds great.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So Scotland would remain in the EU if they go independent?

    So the rUK could stop paying its subscription, withdraw its officials, ignore EU law and yet still benefit from all the trade deals without the expense of setting up a gazillion bilateral agreements?

    Sounds great.
    We're Britain. We can trade with who we like. We hold power and weight, or we used to at least.

    Secondly, facts and figures don't matter. It's about national pride and our identity which is at stake.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    After November, we cannot leave the EU, even if we vote to. It's now or never.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2554723
    Incorrect. They can decide to reject the terms we want, they can't stop us leaving.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    We're Britain. We can trade with who we like. We hold power and weight, or we used to at least.

    Secondly, facts and figures don't matter. It's about national pride and our identity which is at stake.
    Yeah you can prive anything with facts.

    Just to check, I'll ask again: if we didnt pay a subscription, ignored 'EU law', didn't send officials, only allowed immigration as agreed by the rUK Parliament, you still wouldnt want to be a member of the EU?

    Youd rather do without the trade agreements the block has setup? Or how much would you spend setting up bilateral agreements? So that (for example) the UK could export cars to India without a 100% import tarriff being applied.

    Why wouldn't you want to do the former after November?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Yeah you can prive anything with facts.
    Okay.

    (Original post by Quady)
    Just to check, I'll ask again: if we didnt pay a subscription, ignored 'EU law', didn't send officials, only allowed immigration as agreed by the rUK Parliament, you still wouldnt want to be a member of the EU?
    1) We didn't send 40 million a day to the EU. Okay. Ignored EU law. Okay. Didn't send officials to ...Brussels ? Okay. And made our own immigration rules and policy. Okay.

    Then yes, I would remain in the EU if we could do those things.

    Actually, I would stay in the EU if it was only Western European countries in the EU. The problem is all the other countries coming and joining in the future.

    And when has the EU ever said they would let us do any of those things ??
    If anything , they have only demanded more control and access to Britain without our say.

    (Original post by Quady)

    Youd rather do without the trade agreements the block has setup? Or how much would you spend setting up bilateral agreements? So that (for example) the UK could export cars to India without a 100% import tarriff being applied.
    We can keep trading with countries in Europe if we left.

    If you have good relations with a country, they wouldn't rip you off and charge a ridiculous per cent tariff like your example.

    (Original post by Quady)
    Why wouldn't you want to do the former after November?
    Because we cannot re-negotiate with the EU. They will never let us make our own laws.
    They are stubborn crusty dinosaurs.

    This is like Batman negotiating with the Riddler. There is no negotiation.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Then yes, I would remain in the EU if we could do those things.

    And when has the EU ever said they would let us do any of those things ??
    I thought you said we could not leave the EU from November?

    If we just didn't do the things we didn't want there wouldn't be anything they could do.

    OK they wouldn't give our farmers any of the CAP, but meh, we wouldn't be paying a subscription.

    So from November we are golden. Right now if we didn't do those things they could kick us out. But as you've said, from November we can't leave.
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    Yeah come on ukip
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I thought you said we could not leave the EU from November?.
    We probably can't. The longer we stay in , the worse it gets to be honest.

    (Original post by Quady)
    If we just didn't do the things we didn't want there wouldn't be anything they could do.
    Probably bomb us out of spite ? Throw us out the EU ? Fine us ?



    (Original post by Quady)

    So from November we are golden. Right now if we didn't do those things they could kick us out. But as you've said, from November we can't leave.
    From November things get much worse.

    If we dared to make our own laws,
    deport who we wanted to,
    made our own immigration policy,
    dared to make our own trade policies with who we want,
    dared to grow a crop the EU didn't allow us to,
    then yes, they may throw us out.

    But we won't. Our government will do everything the EU tells it to do.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    We probably can't. The longer we stay in , the worse it gets to be honest.



    Probably bomb us out of spite ? Throw us out the EU ? Fine us ?
    Why would we pay a fine?

    So we can't leave unless we're told to leave?

    Does the treaty allow for the EU to throw us out?
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    Would be quite dramatic if we can't leave the EU after November even if we want to because we won't be leaving before November.

    What will be interesting is if UKIP then lie to the electorate next year by claiming that they will offer a referendum that could see us leaving the EU?

    Will UKIP lie to the British people that they can get us out of Europe?

    My money is on that being exactly the lie they say in the next election campaign.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Why would we pay a fine?

    So we can't leave unless we're told to leave?

    Does the treaty allow for the EU to throw us out?
    Okay. So if we closed our border, allowed no one from the EU in our country, like all the one-way-ticketers who come with a sleeping bag and Roma immigrants etc, but stayed in the EU anyway, What would they do ??? I don't know. We can only guess.

    If you are going to join a club and violate all the rules, and disagree with all the rules,

    you may as well not even be in it to begin with.
 
 
 
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