Re-Negotiating with the EU = Batman negotiating with the Riddler

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democracyforum
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So basically if we want to make our our laws, and specifically our own immigration laws and rules, we have to discuss it first with a foreign power made up of crusty dinosaurs.

What a pathetic state of affairs it really is.
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gladders
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(Original post by democracyforum)
So basically if we want to make our our laws,
We do make our own laws. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/

and specifically our own immigration laws and rules
We do make our own immigration laws and rules. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...0140022_en.pdf

And

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...137/hc-532.pdf

we have to discuss it first with a foreign power
An international organisation of Member States. I don't think we want to start breaking treaties willy-nilly.

made up of crusty dinosaurs.
I can't comment on their personal hygiene or species

What a pathetic state of affairs it really is.
Seeing as your premise is flawed, not sure how.
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perfectsymbology
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Is this a pro BNP thread? I mean the BNP are the only ones who are going to block all or most immigration. UKIP's poicy as far as I know is just to limit immigration to commonwealth countries but they won't stop it.
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Beechey
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(Original post by perfectsymbology)
Is this a pro BNP thread? I mean the BNP are the only ones who are going to block all or most immigration. UKIP's poicy as far as I know is just to limit immigration to commonwealth countries but they won't stop it.
Don't even think it's that - isn't it to just lower immigration levels to around 50,000 per year?
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tengentoppa
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"Crusty dinosaurs". Ha.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by gladders)



We do make our own immigration laws and rules.

Really ? So can we refuse to allow unlimited bulgarians and romanians in the country ? Or even an unlimited amount of Polish ?

Will we stop Albanians and Turks coming here when Albania and Turkey join the EU ?

Or is this out of our control ?
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gladders
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(Original post by democracyforum)
Really ? So can we refuse to allow unlimited bulgarians and romanians in the country ? Or even an unlimited amount of Polish ?

Will we stop Albanians and Turks coming here when Albania and Turkey join the EU ?

Or is this out of our control ?
We agreed by Treaty to permit free travel within the EU. It's hardly new - it's been a standard EU thing for utterly decades - but it seems that as soon as Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles join the EU everyone flips out. Is there something problematic with them as opposed to French and Germans?

Seeing as the UK has the right of veto over these Treaties, and the right to veto the accession of any other country to them, then if we do not block it, then it's our own fault. We have the right to withdraw from them, but yes, I am afraid it means we have to talk to some 'crusty dinosaurs', because we are a mature country and not a collection of spoiled brats who want to throw their toys out of the pram.

Or are we - OP's attitude sounds very much like that's what he wants us to do.
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Pkysam
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(Original post by democracyforum)
Really ? So can we refuse to allow unlimited bulgarians and romanians in the country ? Or even an unlimited amount of Polish ?

Will we stop Albanians and Turks coming here when Albania and Turkey join the EU ?

Or is this out of our control ?
We can, but we choose not to because freedom of movement benefits millions of British Citizens who choose to live elsewhere in the EU (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9...#axzz37KxsRKNC) while immigration of almost exclusively working age adults helps offset our ageing population and makes a significant contribution to our wealth ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...opulation.html )

But don't let facts spoil your argument, you can prove anything with facts right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw&feature=kp


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FinalMH
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(Original post by gladders)

Or are we - OP's attitude sounds very much like that's what he wants us to do.
I think the OP's is a troll. In another thread he suggested to make a declaration of war against Scotland if they vote for independence.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Pkysam)
We can, but we choose not to because freedom of movement benefits millions of British Citizens who choose to live elsewhere in the EU (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9...#axzz37KxsRKNC) while immigration of almost exclusively working age adults helps offset our ageing population and makes a significant contribution to our wealth ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...opulation.html )

But don't let facts spoil your argument, you can prove anything with facts right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw&feature=kp


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facts don't matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnm2N...E1Ov0Ir1NDa3Yr
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by gladders)
We agreed by Treaty to permit free travel within the EU. It's hardly new - it's been a standard EU thing for utterly decades - but it seems that as soon as Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles join the EU everyone flips out. Is there something problematic with them as opposed to French and Germans?

Seeing as the UK has the right of veto over these Treaties, and the right to veto the accession of any other country to them, then if we do not block it, then it's our own fault. We have the right to withdraw from them, but yes, I am afraid it means we have to talk to some 'crusty dinosaurs', because we are a mature country and not a collection of spoiled brats who want to throw their toys out of the pram.

Or are we - OP's attitude sounds very much like that's what he wants us to do.
The difference between the French and Germans and the Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles is exactly the argument you later make; the former are secure, stable and economically successful countries. The latter are not.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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Also the whole point of being sovereign is that we can change our mind.

Future governments are not bound by previous governments. Having signed a treaty does not mean that we cannot (or even should not) change our minds.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by democracyforum)
So basically if we want to make our our laws, and specifically our own immigration laws and rules, we have to discuss it first with a foreign power made up of crusty dinosaurs.

What a pathetic state of affairs it really is.
As opposed to doing the exact same with a load of oligarchs?
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gladders
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(Original post by Lord Baelish)
Wrong. I'll take facts instead of your wrong interpretation thanks. Stop spreading misinformation please.

Image

Let's have the truth and a mature debate.
You're saying that posting links to the Statute Law Database and the Home Office are lies?
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gladders
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(Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
The difference between the French and Germans and the Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles is exactly the argument you later make; the former are secure, stable and economically successful countries. The latter are not.
And how will barring them entry into the UK improve their economy or ours?
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NikolaT
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(Original post by Lord Baelish)
Let's have the truth and a mature debate.
Guy number 1 comes along and deconstructs OP with linking to official sources of information; the government, the Home Office, etc.

Guy number 2 comes along and says Guy number 1 has 'wrong interpretation', posts a picture which had no citation, and then asks for the 'truth' and 'mature debate'.

You're Guy number 2.

Do you honestly not see what was wrong there?
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Butane
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(Original post by Pkysam)
We can, but we choose not to because freedom of movement benefits millions of British Citizens who choose to live elsewhere in the EU (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9...#axzz37KxsRKNC) while immigration of almost exclusively working age adults helps offset our ageing population and makes a significant contribution to our wealth ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...opulation.html )

But don't let facts spoil your argument, you can prove anything with facts right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw&feature=kp


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Without telling us how many brits lived elsewhere in the EU prior to the free movement directive, your first statistic is meaningless.

Secondly, I don't think a PONSY scheme is the best way to support the ever increasing pension burden in this country. Governments The labour party needs to keep its greasy hands off pension funds, and people need to start taking more personal responsibility to save for their retirement.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by gladders)
And how will barring them entry into the UK improve their economy or ours?
First, I don't care about improving their economy.

Second, wage suppression.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by NikolaT)
Guy number 1 comes along and deconstructs OP with linking to official sources of information; the government, the Home Office, etc.

Guy number 2 comes along and says Guy number 1 has 'wrong interpretation', posts a picture which had no citation, and then asks for the 'truth' and 'mature debate'.

You're Guy number 2.

Do you honestly not see what was wrong there?
The picture came from this webiste:

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu_make_uk_law-29587

So it is fairly reliable. The information on that page makes for interesting reading.
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democracyforum
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Having open borders is morally wrong. Forget the economy for the time being.

Actually, negotiating with the EU = Palestine negotiating with Israel. Pointless.
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