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B693 - Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014 Watch

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    B693 - Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014, TSR Government

    Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014
    An Act ensuring the most important international languages are taught in schools.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1: Tuition
    (1) Section 1 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013 is replaced with:
    1.1 The tuition of one major international language will be made compulsory for all school pupils throughout Key Stages 1, 2 and 4.
    1.2 The tuition of two foreign languages, to include at least one major international language, will be made compulsory for all school pupils in England throughout Key Stage 3.
    1.1 The tuition of one major international language will be made compulsory for all school pupils in Wales throughout Key Stage 3.



    2: Definitions
    (1) The following is added to Section 2 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013:
    2.2 “Major International Language” is defined as any of the official languages of the United Nations plus German, Hindi, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese and Turkish.
    2.3 “Working Language(s)” is defined as the language(s) in which non-language lessons are delivered. When used in reference to a pupil, it refers to the language in which the pupil receives non-language lessons.



    3: Exemptions
    (1) Section 5 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013 is replaced with:
    5.1 The following persons and their responsible tuition bodies are exempt from all sections of this act:
    (1). All pupils attending schools which specialise in the teaching of children with special needs, and for whom foreign language tuition is deemed not to be suitable by the headteacher;
    (2). All pupils attending a school whose working language is neither English nor Welsh.
    (3). All pupils who are deemed by the headteacher to not speak the working language of the school fluently. Where this exemption is used, the pupil must be given extra lessons in the working language.



    4: Commencement, Short Title and Extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the Foreign Languages (Amendment) Act 2014.
    (2) This Act shall extend to England and Wales; and
    (3) Shall come into force on the 1st of September 2015.

    This would amend the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013.
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    Pasting error? Nay in its current form!
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    (Original post by Faland)
    B693 - Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014, TSR Government

    Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014
    An Act ensuring the most important international languages are taught in schools.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1: Tuition
    (1) Section 1 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013 is replaced with:



    2: Definitions
    (1) The following is added to Section 2 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013:



    3: Exemptions
    (1) Section 5 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013 is replaced with:



    4: Commencement, Short Title and Extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the Foreign Languages (Amendment) Act 2014.
    (2) This Act shall extend to England and Wales; and
    (3) Shall come into force on the 1st of September 2015.
    I think the content is missing?
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    Nothing like voting on a bill that has no contents, har har har.
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    Pasting error?

    (Original post by Cheese_Monster)
    I think the content is missing?

    (Original post by Mattvr)
    Nothing like voting on a bill that has no contents, har har har.
    Trying to dig this out of the Govt forum, quotes were used in the Bill and it looks as if they haven't copy-pastaed through. Gimme 5 and I should have the real copy. Till then... start guessing what this does
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    Here's the ACTUAL Bill guys

    Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014, TSR Government

    Foreign Languages Tuition (Amendment) Bill 2014
    An Act ensuring the most important international languages are taught in schools.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1: Tuition
    (1) Section 1 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013 is replaced with:
    1.1 The tuition of one major international language will be made compulsory for all school pupils throughout Key Stages 1, 2 and 4.
    1.2 The tuition of two foreign languages, to include at least one major international language, will be made compulsory for all school pupils in England throughout Key Stage 3.
    1.1 The tuition of one major international language will be made compulsory for all school pupils in Wales throughout Key Stage 3.



    2: Definitions
    (1) The following is added to Section 2 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013:
    2.2 “Major International Language” is defined as any of the official languages of the United Nations plus German, Hindi, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese and Turkish.
    2.3 “Working Language(s)” is defined as the language(s) in which non-language lessons are delivered. When used in reference to a pupil, it refers to the language in which the pupil receives non-language lessons.



    3: Exemptions
    (1) Section 5 of the Foreign Languages Tuition Act 2013 is replaced with:
    5.1 The following persons and their responsible tuition bodies are exempt from all sections of this act:
    (1). All pupils attending schools which specialise in the teaching of children with special needs, and for whom foreign language tuition is deemed not to be suitable by the headteacher;
    (2). All pupils attending a school whose working language is neither English nor Welsh.
    (3). All pupils who are deemed by the headteacher to not speak the working language of the school fluently. Where this exemption is used, the pupil must be given extra lessons in the working language.



    4: Commencement, Short Title and Extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the Foreign Languages (Amendment) Act 2014.
    (2) This Act shall extend to England and Wales; and
    (3) Shall come into force on the 1st of September 2015.


    (Original post by Faland)
    QFA
    Could we have the OP updated please?
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    It says "Amendment" - is the original Bill available for cross-referencing?
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    Nothing to see here folks, move along. :wink:
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    Now we have some content, aye! (Or should that be oui?)
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    Nay! This bill has a gaping loophole. English is a major language. In Wales only one official language needs to be taught, the bill doesn't say one additional major foreign language creating a situation where only English can be taught. Wales also has the Welsh Assembly to govern on things like this so how does this bill work amongst devolution? Besides, why are Welsh students taught one major foreign language and English students two? Why not extend this bill to Scotland?

    In effect, students in England and Wales can learn only English in all key stages apart from Key Stage 3 where English students will need to learn one additional language.

    There's also a numbering error in section 1.

    Even with equality and the loophole close, it's still a nay as most of those major foreign languages are becoming smaller daily (Mandarin/SC would be good languages to learn), but apart from that English dominates as a lingua franca so efforts should be in improve the level of English.
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    (Original post by The Politisphere)
    Nay! This bill has a gaping loophole. English is a major language. In Wales only one official language needs to be taught, the bill doesn't say one additional major foreign language creating a situation where only English can be taught. Wales also has the Welsh Assembly to govern on things like this so how does this bill work amongst devolution? Besides, why are Welsh students taught one major foreign language and English students two? Why not extend this bill to Scotland?

    In effect, students in England and Wales can learn only English in all key stages apart from Key Stage 3 where English students will need to learn one additional language.

    There's also a numbering error in section 1.

    Even with equality and the loophole close, it's still a nay as most of those major foreign languages are becoming smaller daily (Mandarin/SC would be good languages to learn), but apart from that English dominates as a lingua franca so efforts should be in improve the level of English.
    The Welsh Assembly Government has ruined education in Wales and seem to need the UK Government to keep them in check if we want actual subjects to remain on the curriculum it would seem.

    Welsh students only need study the one MFL to free up some space for the extra subject in Wales namely Welsh.

    Having re-read the bill, technically at KS3 both of the languages need be foreign, but yes, there is an error in the definitions and that will be fixed in the second reading.

    Mandarin is on the list as an official UN language. English may well be a lingua franca but only at most 30% of the world population speak it, hence the need for competency in multiple languages.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The Welsh Assembly Government has ruined education in Wales and seem to need the UK Government to keep them in check if we want actual subjects to remain on the curriculum it would seem.

    Welsh students only need study the one MFL to free up some space for the extra subject in Wales namely Welsh.

    Having re-read the bill, technically at KS3 both of the languages need be foreign, but yes, there is an error in the definitions and that will be fixed in the second reading.
    Less than 50% of students in Wales learn Welsh. In Wales alone barely 19% of the population speak Welsh. Agreed, the Welsh education system is a mess especially when reading official reports but the same requirements should be imposed on the whole of the UK. Welsh is a minor, dying language anyway.

    (Original post by O133)
    Mandarin is on the list as an official UN language. English may well be a lingua franca but only at most 30% of the world population speak it, hence the need for competency in multiple languages.
    Even then, many official UN languages have fewer speakers so would it not be better to further legislate the exact languages that need to be learnt? This is where my understanding fails. I know Standard Chinese is an official language but Mandarin isn't specifically stated. Are they pretty much the same language?
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    (Original post by The Politisphere)
    Less than 50% of students in Wales learn Welsh. In Wales alone barely 19% of the population speak Welsh. Agreed, the Welsh education system is a mess especially when reading official reports but the same requirements should be imposed on the whole of the UK. Welsh is a minor, dying language anyway.

    Even then, many official UN languages have fewer speakers so would it not be better to further legislate the exact languages that need to be learnt? This is where my understanding fails. I know Standard Chinese is an official language but Mandarin isn't specifically stated. Are they pretty much the same language?
    Less than 50% of students in Wales learn Welsh?? Assuming you're referring to school students (rather than sixth form/university) then 100% of them learn Welsh, just like 100% of them learn Maths and English.

    I thought it was more like 25% of the Welsh population speaking Welsh as well.

    The UN official languages are English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian and Mandarin Chinese. I believe French is the lest spoken language of those six, but it is still a major world language despite its relatively low speakership. It's a co-official language of the EU and the IOC to name a couple of its 'accolades'.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The Welsh Assembly Government has ruined education in Wales and seem to need the UK Government to keep them in check if we want actual subjects to remain on the curriculum it would seem.

    Welsh students only need study the one MFL to free up some space for the extra subject in Wales namely Welsh.

    Having re-read the bill, technically at KS3 both of the languages need be foreign, but yes, there is an error in the definitions and that will be fixed in the second reading.

    Mandarin is on the list as an official UN language. English may well be a lingua franca but only at most 30% of the world population speak it, hence the need for competency in multiple languages.
    Speaking as a Welsh Student, who has finished their GCSEs but 3 weeks ago, and who is a supporter of the Welsh Government and Welsh Assembly (2 completely different institutions), and who is in regular, casual, contact with the First Minister, as well as a supporter of devolution, I don't think it's fair to say that the Welsh Assembly/Welsh Government has ruined education in Wales! Yes, we are having Welsh forced upon us, but it's to protect a diminishing language (which I don't support). Contrarily, Gove is causing utter havoc with the curriculum! Between wanting to scrap Of Mice and Men (et al) and his moronic handling of the extremism in schools, I'd be asking him to resign in the next cabinet reshuffle! Any way, rant over.

    Welsh is on its way out of the syllabus, let's be honest! If this bill is totally by-passing devolution, why not plan to scrap Welsh? Maybe it should be added at Second Reading?

    I don't really think this Bill takes into account that some people struggle to speak English, as a first language, let alone an additional language! Once again, a possible addition is to increase English Language lessons, for Second Reading.

    For the record, a close relation of mine teaches year 1 pupils, and has taught year 2 pupils for a number of years prior (both KS1). The curriculum is so blundered at that age, that the teachers struggle to teach, because things are changing so frequently! Some of the material and tests that the pupils are expected to do is also simply nonsensical - it seems the test-writers have never met a child younger than 12! I very much oppose teaching MFL at such a young age - KS3 earliest, in my eyes. Maybe another edit for Second Reading?

    With all of the above factors in mind, I simply don't agree with this Bill, in it's current state. I wish to remain a loyalist, but I simply can't consciously agree with this Bill, without many changes.

    At First Reading, it's a regrettable ABSTAIN from me. Hopefully this will change, for an Aye, at Second Reading!
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    (Original post by Mattvr)
    Speaking as a Welsh Student, who has finished their GCSEs but 3 weeks ago, and who is a supporter of the Welsh Government and Welsh Assembly (2 completely different institutions), and who is in regular, casual, contact with the First Minister, as well as a supporter of devolution, I don't think it's fair to say that the Welsh Assembly/Welsh Government has ruined education in Wales! Yes, we are having Welsh forced upon us, but it's to protect a diminishing language (which I don't support). Contrarily, Gove is causing utter havoc with the curriculum! Between wanting to scrap Of Mice and Men (et al) and his moronic handling of the extremism in schools, I'd be asking him to resign in the next cabinet reshuffle! Any way, rant over.

    Welsh is on its way out of the syllabus, let's be honest! If this bill is totally by-passing devolution, why not plan to scrap Welsh? Maybe it should be added at Second Reading?

    I don't really think this Bill takes into account that some people struggle to speak English, as a first language, let alone an additional language! Once again, a possible addition is to increase English Language lessons, for Second Reading.

    For the record, a close relation of mine teaches year 1 pupils, and has taught year 2 pupils for a number of years prior (both KS1). The curriculum is so blundered at that age, that the teachers struggle to teach, because things are changing so frequently! Some of the material and tests that the pupils are expected to do is also simply nonsensical - it seems the test-writers have never met a child younger than 12! I very much oppose teaching MFL at such a young age - KS3 earliest, in my eyes. Maybe another edit for Second Reading?

    With all of the above factors in mind, I simply don't agree with this Bill, in it's current state. I wish to remain a loyalist, but I simply can't consciously agree with this Bill, without many changes.

    At First Reading, it's a regrettable ABSTAIN from me. Hopefully this will change, for an Aye, at Second Reading!
    The Welsh Baccalaureate. Talk Carwyn Jones out of that one. I'd take Gove over Huw Lewis any day of the week.

    I don't think Welsh needs scrapping, maybe less of a role but not a complete scrapping.

    MFL is taught from the word go in most European countries, which is probably the main reason that they are such better linguists. This bill is intended to replicate this situation in England and Wales.
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    (Original post by O133)
    Less than 50% of students in Wales learn Welsh?? Assuming you're referring to school students (rather than sixth form/university) then 100% of them learn Welsh, just like 100% of them learn Maths and English. I thought it was more like 25% of the Welsh population speaking Welsh as well.
    My apologies, I meant 'speak Welsh' not 'learn Welsh'. Still, with many public schools shunning Welsh altogether, this 'half GCSE' qualification, Welsh lessons that involve not actual teaching, Welsh lessons with no formal qualification at the end, Welsh lessons with a non-Welsh speaker and a small minimum teaching time, we can hardly say Welsh is a strenuous teaching exercise, effective and benefits the children. Not only has the percentage of Welsh speakers fallen to 19% but the total number of Welsh speakers has also fallen. This bill puts children in Wales at a disadvantage. I suggest in a second reason there is no exception for Wales and the Welsh language is scrapped.

    The UN official languages are English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian and Mandarin Chinese. I believe French is the lest spoken language of those six, but it is still a major world language despite its relatively low speakership. It's a co-official language of the EU and the IOC to name a couple of its 'accolades'.
    I suppose what I'm asking you is; is learning Italian less favourable than learning Mandarin or Spanish considering the smaller number of speakers and influence. If your answer to this is yes, why not restrict the languages even more? If your answer is no, why is it not less favourable?
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    (Original post by O133)
    I'd take Gove over Huw Lewis any day of the week.

    I don't think Welsh needs scrapping, maybe less of a role but not a complete scrapping.

    MFL is taught from the word go in most European countries, which is probably the main reason that they are such better linguists. This bill is intended to replicate this situation in England and Wales.
    If I'm brutally honest, I'd rather neither! Education is a tricky business, it's rare a really good Ed. Sec. (or equivalent) is found.

    Even Welsh in it's current state is very low - compulsory lessons are than 3 lessons a fortnight (total of 54 lessons per fortnight).

    It could also be due to the late starting of education - equivalents to "year 1" are age 5 in most of the UK, but are mostly 6 and 7 on the continent - the brain had had a greater development time. Nor do most countries have a syllabus that changes with wind direction!
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    (Original post by The Politisphere)
    My apologies, I meant 'speak Welsh' not 'learn Welsh'. Still, with many public schools shunning Welsh altogether, this 'half GCSE' qualification, Welsh lessons that involve not actual teaching, Welsh lessons with no formal qualification at the end, Welsh lessons with a non-Welsh speaker and a small minimum teaching time, we can hardly say Welsh is a strenuous teaching exercise, effective and benefits the children. Not only has the percentage of Welsh speakers fallen to 19% but the total number of Welsh speakers has also fallen. This bill puts children in Wales at a disadvantage. I suggest in a second reason there is no exception for Wales and the Welsh language is scrapped.

    I suppose what I'm asking you is; is learning Italian less favourable than learning Mandarin or Spanish considering the smaller number of speakers and influence. If your answer to this is yes, why not restrict the languages even more? If your answer is no, why is it not less favourable?
    What about people who study through the medium of Welsh?

    Perhaps Italian is less favourable than Mandarin or Spanish, but there will always be a demand for speakers of a variety of languages, hence we don't want to narrow it down too much.
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    (Original post by Mattvr)
    I don't think it's fair to say that the Welsh Assembly/Welsh Government has ruined education in Wales! Yes, we are having Welsh forced upon us, but it's to protect a diminishing language (which I don't support).

    For the record, a close relation of mine teaches year 1 pupils, and has taught year 2 pupils for a number of years prior (both KS1). The curriculum is so blundered at that age, that the teachers struggle to teach, because things are changing so frequently! Some of the material and tests that the pupils are expected to do is also simply nonsensical - it seems the test-writers have never met a child younger than 12! I very much oppose teaching MFL at such a young age - KS3 earliest, in my eyes. Maybe another edit for Second Reading?
    You defend the Welsh government from ruining education in Wales yet go on to place blame in the ever changing primary curriculum and the nonsensical tests pupils need to do. The Welsh government/assembly (both are similar and closely related so the technicalities don't matter here) are responsible for that.

    (Original post by 0133)
    What about people who study through the medium of Welsh?
    I would like to see that outlawed. I believe the obsession with the Welsh language and constant attempt to social engineer Welsh people so all Welsh newborns are brought up speaking Welsh is detrimental to Wales. A greater emphasis needs to be placed on the important major foreign languages instead of concentrating on a legacy language. Teach Welsh as a classical language similar to Latin. Forget the Welsh nationalists in the process.
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    (Original post by Mattvr)
    If I'm brutally honest, I'd rather neither! Education is a tricky business, it's rare a really good Ed. Sec. (or equivalent) is found.

    Even Welsh in it's current state is very low - compulsory lessons are than 3 lessons a fortnight (total of 54 lessons per fortnight).

    It could also be due to the late starting of education - equivalents to "year 1" are age 5 in most of the UK, but are mostly 6 and 7 on the continent - the brain had had a greater development time. Nor do most countries have a syllabus that changes with wind direction!
    Maybe it was just us that had to endure 4 lessons (out of a total 30) per week.

    So in England and Wales MFL would kick in in Y1, whereas they tend to kick in in Y2 abroad. That's not a huge difference if you ask me.
 
 
 
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