The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Original post by gideon123

i am actually laughing at this...do you know there are many arab countries surrounding israel?...they could seek refuge in any of these countries whereas a jew could never dream about even setting foot in to these arab countries.

This shows just how little you know about the situation. Israel blockade the norther boarder and the western boarder. The Egyptians blockade the southern boarder. The Israelis blockade the coast and control the airspace. Pray tell how the residents make it to Jordan?

Original post by gideon123

just to get things straight...im jewish and a zionist and i dont understand why you think the actions of israel are to blame- i actually agree with you when you say; "innocent Palestinians are brutally getting killed" - its not fair that innocent civillians are being killed! However putting the blame on israel is unfair. Here is why....israel warns palestinians with leaflets

Which effectively just say "Move further south or die"

and door knocking before bombing an area,

To be able to knock on somebodies door you need to have somebody there, it's also grossly inefficient and dangerous.

however more fundamentally the blame for the death of innocent palestinians is the fault of hamas as they set up their rockets in areas with hospitals and children,

It's called strategic placement, you should ALWAYS put your weapons in the safest place if there is a real threat to them unless it is necessary to have them in a dangerous position.

so of course there will be palestinian casualties! Israel actually cares more for palestinians then hamas does!-

Except, Israel know that there will be civilians there, despite their warnings, and attack anyway. They know full well that they have a reasonable chance of killing or severely wounding civilians if they conduct air strikes. If they really cared they would have launched their ground op sooner, which should be much safer for the Gazan civilians and many times more effective, but, of course, that means a few Israelis will die, so that's out of the question. One Israeli is clearly worth a few dozen Palestinians.

what utter irony....so dont vent your anger at israel at the deaths of palestinian civillians when it is the fault of hamas. If hamas stopped fireing rockets then there would be no retalliation from israel and thus no palestinian casualties!

You seem to forget why the rockets are being launched in the first place. And answer the Falklands question.

Reply 563

felamaslen

15

Original post by tsr1269

Given the fact that the Israeli's still have yet to confirm who killed them and why, it would be prudent to remain silent until such a time when such information is released by the Israeli information Burea...

That's missing the point, is it not? The point was that Hamas support the killings, otherwise they would have renounced their previous remarks or expelled (or at least demoted) the spokesman who said them.

You want to limit what constitutes a liberal democracy to your own view. You accept no digressions and thus, your ideals can be classified as utopian.

I want to limit what constitutes a liberal democracy to the definition of a liberal democracy. You want it to mean whatever you like.

If they wanted to, then they would have declared it already...

They have, in their charter and in their covenant, and in the deranged speeches their officials have made.

Reply 564

the bear

20

The people of Gaza need to set up other political parties; Hamas are not helping at all.

Reply 565

Original post by the bear

The people of Gaza need to set up other political parties; Hamas are not helping at all.

The people of Gaza will not help themselves until they accept Israel as a reality.

Their whole focus is on the destruction of a more powerful nation.

Quite despicable and I've long lost any sympathy for them.

Reply 566

the bear

20

Original post by Chindits

The people of Gaza will not help themselves until they accept Israel as a reality.

Their whole focus is on the destruction of a more powerful nation.

Quite despicable and I've long lost any sympathy for them.

i am sure they are not all nasty people, but they are not doing themselves any favors by keeping Hamas in business.

[scrollr] :israel:

[/scrollr]

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 567

Original post by tsr1269

Given the fact that the Israeli's still have yet to confirm who killed them and why, it would be prudent to remain silent until such a time when such information is released by the Israeli information Burea...
.

Shame you don't extend that same courtesy over the beach deaths, eh?

So Hamas murders three boys and you're not convinced and want to wait for evidence.

4 boys died on a beach and you don't need evidence, you've made your mind up that Israel is guilty.

Pro-'palestinian' supporters are always so utterly hypocritical and morally bankrupt :biggrin:

Reply 568

samba

6

Original post by Jammy Duel

This shows just how little you know about the situation. Israel blockade the norther boarder and the western boarder. The Egyptians blockade the southern boarder. The Israelis blockade the coast and control the airspace. Pray tell how the residents make it to Jordan?

Pray tell why they'd want to? The Jordanians would simply massacre them. They hate them far more than the Israelis do.

It's called strategic placement, you should ALWAYS put your weapons in the safest place if there is a real threat to them unless it is necessary to have them in a dangerous position.

Um what. Name me one other country that considers a 'safe place' for their weapons in the centre of a civilian population? Weapons are kept away from civilians for that very reason. They will be targeted. Palestinians just play by the playbook of 'we dont care'

Except, Israel know that there will be civilians there, despite their warnings, and attack anyway. They know full well that they have a reasonable chance of killing or severely wounding civilians if they conduct air strikes. If they really cared they would have launched their ground op sooner, which should be much safer for the Gazan civilians and many times more effective, but, of course, that means a few Israelis will die, so that's out of the question. One Israeli is clearly worth a few dozen Palestinians.

So it's 'strategic' to put them there, but when the strategy does not work, its the fault of the people attacking? A ground op is wrought with danger, and it's nowhere near as simple as just 'sending in troops lolol' - One Israeli IS worth a few dozen palestinians to the Israeli government, just like 1 brit is worth a few dozen Somalians when we launch drone strikes etc. Every government protects their own people first. Again, except the Palestinians.

You seem to forget why the rockets are being launched in the first place. And answer the Falklands question.

Why are rockets being launched?

Reply 569

Original post by the bear

i am sure they are not all nasty people, but they are not doing themselves any favors by keeping Hamas in business.

[scrollr] :israel:

[/scrollr]

Haha love that!

There's a saying - "the 'palestinians' never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity"

I think it's time to accept that it's not just a series of bad judgements on their part any longer, it's the inability to accept Israel and the deluded belief that eventually they will wear Israel down and destroy it.

They cling to this hope and it shapes all of their policies.

Reply 570

miavdbt

6

Original post by Jammy Duel

It's called strategic placement, you should ALWAYS put your weapons in the safest place if there is a real threat to them unless it is necessary to have them in a dangerous position.

It's not strategic placement to put your weapons where there are civilians, or to ask civilians to stand near your weapons. That's what is commonly referred to as using human shields (i.e. trying to deter an attack on a military target by placing it within civilian buildings, or near civilians).

Reply 571

Original post by samba

Pray tell why they'd want to? The Jordanians would simply massacre them. They hate them far more than the Israelis do.

Or any country where they're safe. To flee somewhere they have to get over the boarders first.

Um what. Name me one other country that considers a 'safe place' for their weapons in the centre of a civilian population? Weapons are kept away from civilians for that very reason. They will be targeted. Palestinians just play by the playbook of 'we dont care'

But civilians are used as a deterrent, where else do you propose they put them where they have some degree of safety from Israeli attack?

So it's 'strategic' to put them there, but when the strategy does not work, its the fault of the people attacking? A ground op is wrought with danger, and it's nowhere near as simple as just 'sending in troops lolol' - One Israeli IS worth a few dozen palestinians to the Israeli government, just like 1 brit is worth a few dozen Somalians when we launch drone strikes etc. Every government protects their own people first. Again, except ~~the Palestinians~~ Hamas.

And blind nationalism and patriotism are problems in the world, not justifications.

And it's not the Palestinians that's the problem, it's Hamas that's the problem. Saying the Palestinians is the problem is like saying "the BNP is racist, so Britain is racist"

Why are rockets being launched?
Strictly, it's the existence of a Jewish state [there].
Although one could argue that them occupying most of the Arab portion of what is now Israel after initial negotiation on boarders broke down, and then occupation of the rest of it 19 years later doesn't exactly help the situation.

Original post by miavdbt

It's not strategic placement to put your weapons where there are civilians, or to ask civilians to stand near your weapons. That's what is commonly referred to as using human shields (i.e. trying to deter an attack on a military target by placing it within civilian buildings, or near civilians).

Are you going to bomb said civilians then?

Reply 572

Original post by Jammy Duel

And it's not the Palestinians that's the problem, it's Hamas that's the problem. Saying the Palestinians is the problem is like saying "the BNP is racist, so Britain is racist"

LOL!

Wait a second. If the majority of the British people voted for the BNP - you don't think it would then be legitimate for other countries to label the UK as racists?

Similarly, if the majority of 'palestinians' voted for Hamas whose central manifesto commitment is the destruction of a nation and genocide of a people - then we're free to judge them on that.

What a ridiculous post.

Reply 573

Original post by Chindits

LOL!

Wait a second. If the majority of the British people voted for the BNP - you don't think it would then be legitimate for other countries to label the UK as racists?

Similarly, if the majority of 'palestinians' voted for Hamas whose central manifesto commitment is the destruction of a nation and genocide of a people - then we're free to judge them on that.

What a ridiculous post.

So, do they have compulsory voting in Palestine, and does this mean that Palestinians on the West Bank aren't Palestinians? If not, what are they?

Reply 574

Original post by Jammy Duel

So, do they have compulsory voting in Palestine, and does this mean that Palestinians on the West Bank aren't Palestinians? If not, what are they?

Don't skirt the issue, pal.

You left yourself open for that one.

We're talking about Gaza.

Gazans voted for Hamas knowing exactly what Hamas were about.

If the British people voted the BNP into power (not that one can equate the BNP with a terrorist group) then people will quite legitimately be able to label the UK as racists.

Reply 575

Original post by Chindits

Don't skirt the issue, pal.

You left yourself open for that one.

We're talking about Gaza.

Gazans voted for Hamas knowing exactly what Hamas were about.

If the British people voted the BNP into power (not that one can equate the BNP with a terrorist group) then people will quite legitimately be able to label the UK as racists.

I propose you read the title of the thread, last I checked it was Israel/PALESTINE and not Israel/GAZA

Reply 576

Original post by n00

Are you a shill?

What's your problem?

Are we supposed to toe the student-lefty line over 'palestine'?

Perhaps you should read up on their history (it's a short one) and see how they butchered Christians in Lebanon. How they tried to overthrow Jordan culminating in thousands of them being killed in Black September.

Or how they stabbed Kuwait in the back after being invited into the country, only to then support Saddam's invasion. Kuwait chucked the 'palestinains' out after the war as did Iraq after 2003.

Maybe you should look into how they've aided and abetted terrorists in Sinai to kill Egyptian soldiers?

Please, we all know it's 'fashionable' for the keffiyeh-wearing, skinny-latte sipping students to support the 'palestinians' - but those of us who know about them know that to support them is to support terrorism and butchery.

Reply 577

tsr1269

3

Original post by gideon123

i am actually laughing at this...do you know there are many arab countries surrounding israel?...they could seek refuge in any of these countries whereas a jew could never dream about even setting foot in to these arab countries.

So you want to run them out of town like the Israeli's did in 1948? Furthermore, there is a blockade in place meaning they can't escape by road, by air and by ship.

How do you propose they get out? Launch themselves on a rocket?

Reply 578

tsr1269

3

Original post by gideon123

the bible also says that anyone who is trying to kill you, then you must kill them first- this can be applied to with hamas. your argument of 57 seconds and living near hamas are completely untrue...israel gives the palestinians plenty of warning and they only bomb places that to their intelligence have hamas members

Oh, you mean warnings like this?

I estimate that to be around 57 seconds...

Reply 579