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Why are law/medicine dominated by women but maths/science are not? Watch

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    UK now has about 50% female doctors and lawyers and this happened in more or less 2 generations. Even more than that, both fields now have a majority of female students and their percentage is going up every year. If you count the non-white students you'll realize that the white male doctor is disappearing faster than the amur leopard. So much for his privilege.

    So why are there still so few women in maths, engineering or other similar fields? I mean, if women were thought of as lesser and incapable then the other fields like law or medicine would be even more of an issue , right? Who would want to trust a woman 60 years ago with their life, health, freedom or money? Those fields were complete male bastions too, even more so in many ways as I mentioned.

    Oh and another thing I noticed : the more abstract thinking is required is a course or a career the fewer women you will find in it. That's quite interesting, isn't it? Only Q is why.
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    Because women have more opportunities now than they used to and men/women are finally being seen on a more equal basis. Therefore more women are coming out of their shells and going for jobs with a bit of power.

    However there are still certain jobs that are significantly dominated by one gender. E.g. Nursing - significantly more women than men (as women are traditionally seen as 'caring'). Engineering - significantly more men than women (it is seen as quite a manly job). I think we will see true equality when this begins to change but it's a step in the right direction. I have a female friend in engineering, she was literally the only woman on her course and people often ask her what her role is when she turns up to a construction site (when she says she is obviously an engineer, they look shocked). I wish I knew the answer why it is still this way compared to other jobs but I can only assume that it is still seen as a highly manly role. A bit like being a mechanic (I guess there are lots of silly jokes and stereotypes e.g. "a woman doesn't know the difference between the wheel and the clutch")
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    (Original post by Sazzy890)
    Because women have more opportunities now than they used to and men/women are finally being seen on a more equal basis. Therefore more women are coming out of their shells and going for jobs with a bit of power.

    However there are still certain jobs that are significantly dominated by one gender. E.g. Nursing - significantly more women than men (as women are traditionally seen as 'caring'). Engineering - significantly more men than women (it is seen as quite a manly job). I think we will see true equality when this begins to change but it's a step in the right direction. I have a female friend in engineering, she was literally the only woman on her course and people often ask her what her role is when she turns up to a construction site (when she says she is obviously an engineer, they look shocked). I wish I knew the answer why it is still this way compared to other jobs but I can only assume that it is still seen as a highly manly role. A bit like being a mechanic (I guess there are lots of silly jokes and stereotypes e.g. "a woman doesn't know the difference between the wheel and the clutch")
    The other fields were also 100% male and women were seen as incapable, yet they are now at 50% and getting higher every year. I'm not sure if you read my OP but who would have trusted a female doctor or lawyer 60 years ago? Trusting a woman with your health, life, money or freedom? Most women didn't trust another woman doing those things, never mind men.


    Yet women thrived in these areas and are now surpassing men. But at the same time there are fewer women in IT than 15 years ago in the UK while the % of computer science graduates in the US is half of what it used to be in the mid 80's when it almost reached 40%.

    So why did women do so well in law/medicine yet they are still a rarity in the other mentioned areas? And how do you explain these differences are some of the most extreme in the most liberal, progressive, feminist countries in the world (Sweden, Norway etc) ? Why do women avoid fields where abstract thought is essential like the plague?
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    Why not just go ahead and say women are incapable of abstract thought as you are clearly implying jamie?
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    (Original post by ilem)
    Why not just go ahead and say women are incapable of abstract thought as you are clearly implying jamie?
    1. Not implying that.
    2. Who's jamie?
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    Tell me more about your basis for suggesting the study of law is mere application which requires no abstract and original thought.
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    You lot are as much to blame as OP here. He more or less posts the same threads with a slightly different message each time yet you all fall for it and carry on replying.

    Anyway before I'm lynched for making irrelevant posts, I applied for medicine because I was greatly encouraged to when growing up. I wasn't encouraged to consider maths or other sciences as a career. Pretty much it.

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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    You lot are as much to blame as OP here. He more or less posts the same threads with a slightly different message each time yet you all fall fir it and carry on replying.
    PRSOM. :sadnod:

    Finally, someone else gets it...
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    (Original post by StevieA)
    1. Not implying that.
    2. Who's jamie?
    Yes you are. Literally every post you make is somewhat transparently engineered to suggest that the best course of action is for society to return to good old 50s where the bloody women knew their place as inferior beings and kept their mouths shut.

    It's getting tiresome frankly.
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    The difference is that no one who studies law/medicine because is interested in studying law/medicine, they just do it because of their ego, money or desperate need for respect (last one is for women mostly). I am a law student though Im sure I'd enjoy studying say maths or chemistry much more. I probably wouldn't be able to do as well though and definitely wouldn't be able to pursue a financially endowing career afterwards.
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    (Original post by ilem)
    Yes you are. Literally every post you make is somewhat transparently engineered to suggest that the best course of action is for society to return to good old 50s where the bloody women knew their place as inferior beings and kept their mouths shut.

    It's getting tiresome frankly.
    No. I ask why outcomes are so different and extreme in these areas in the 21st century in the best possible conditions/countries in the world. Nobody's forcing you to reply to any of my threads.
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    (Original post by Kyle Butler)
    The difference is that no one who studies law/medicine because is interested in studying law/medicine, they just do it because of their ego, money or desperate need for respect (last one is for women mostly). I am a law student though Im sure I'd enjoy studying say maths or chemistry much more. I probably wouldn't be able to do as well though and definitely wouldn't be able to pursue a financially endowing career afterwards.
    The awkward thing is that with a maths or chemistry degree, you could definitely get a well-paid career.
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    "Why are law/medicine dominated by women but maths/science are not? "

    Its called personel choice.
    Women will insist on making their own minds up, even though there is a fortune spent on trying to get then to enter stem.
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    (Original post by Kyle Butler)
    The difference is that no one who studies law/medicine because is interested in studying law/medicine, they just do it because of their ego, money or desperate need for respect (last one is for women mostly). I am a law student though Im sure I'd enjoy studying say maths or chemistry much more. I probably wouldn't be able to do as well though and definitely wouldn't be able to pursue a financially endowing career afterwards.
    It's literally the exact opposite of what you said.
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    (Original post by Le Nombre)
    Tell me more about your basis for suggesting the study of law is mere application which requires no abstract and original thought.
    Agreed. Much of law is actually abstract thought. You've got to be able to pick holes in everything and think of alternative arguments etc.
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    (Original post by StevieA)
    The other fields were also 100% male and women were seen as incapable, yet they are now at 50% and getting higher every year. I'm not sure if you read my OP but who would have trusted a female doctor or lawyer 60 years ago? Trusting a woman with your health, life, money or freedom? Most women didn't trust another woman doing those things, never mind men.
    As I said, women might not have been trusted then but they are trusted now because of a thing called 'equality'.

    I can only imagine that gender roles will have something to do with it when it comes to other jobs such as engineering, IT, mechanics (seen as quite manly because, again, there are stereotypes that women don't understand machinery) and nursing (seen as quite feminine due to the caring nature). Whereas things like law and medicine are neither particularly manly nor particularly womanly.
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    Check out this graph:



    (source: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/2...-gender-ratio/, which includes the labels of the unlabelled dots. Law/medicine are not on there since its based on US data and law/medicine arent undergraduate subjects in the US. However medicine can probably be well approximated by biological sciences since thats where a lot of pre-meds go, and this dot is bang in the middle)

    Note that all the fields in the top left are all heavily based on mathematics and/or formal logic (yes, even philosophy), while those in the bottom right use almost no mathematics.

    Its not about 'abstract thinking', its about maths
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    (Original post by poohat)
    Check out this graph:

    Looks to me like the more male dominated a major is (maths, physics, engineering etc) the higher the IQ while the majors women love so much (psychology, health, education, social work) have a much lower IQ. Can't say I'm surprised.
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    (Original post by Sazzy890)
    As I said, women might not have been trusted then but they are trusted now because of a thing called 'equality'.

    I can only imagine that gender roles will have something to do with it when it comes to other jobs such as engineering, IT, mechanics (seen as quite manly because, again, there are stereotypes that women don't understand machinery) and nursing (seen as quite feminine due to the caring nature). Whereas things like law and medicine are neither particularly manly nor particularly womanly.
    You're missing the point. 60 years ago, both law and medicine WERE 'manly'. They were considered rigorous, difficult, and strenuous - no place for a woman, in other words. They were perceived to be significantly more 'manly' than physics/engineering is today. Yet within 2 generations women achieved parity - without any role models, without grants or equity initiatives.

    Despite that, the % of women in maths/physics/engineering/computer science has remained stationary since the 80s. Despite governments and educational bodies making enormous efforts to get more women into them, few of them seem to want to. In fact I saw a report showing a decline of the % of women in these subjects over the last couple of decades. For many subjects the peak time for women (still far below 50%) was in the 80s. I think engineering is the only subject where there's been a slight increase of 2-3% in the last 20 years.

    Quite a few of my female friends did engineering and maths. I genuinely wish there were more of them in these subjects. However, an objective assessment suggests it is not 'gender roles' holding them back, but a deeper biological predisposition for liking certain types of subject.
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    You're missing the point. 60 years ago, both law and medicine WERE 'manly'. They were considered rigorous, difficult, and strenuous - no place for a woman, in other words. They were perceived to be significantly more 'manly' than physics/engineering is today. Yet within 2 generations women achieved parity - without any role models, without grants or equity initiatives.

    Despite that, the % of women in maths/physics/engineering/computer science has remained stationary since the 80s. Despite governments and educational bodies making enormous efforts to get more women into them, few of them seem to want to. In fact I saw a report showing a decline of the % of women in these subjects over the last couple of decades. For many subjects the peak time for women (still far below 50%) was in the 80s. I think engineering is the only subject where there's been a slight increase of 2-3% in the last 20 years.

    Quite a few of my female friends did engineering and maths. I genuinely wish there were more of them in these subjects. However, an objective assessment suggests it is not 'gender roles' holding them back, but a deeper biological predisposition for liking certain types of subject.
    You're right, of course, but don't hold your breath for an answer that doesn't involve a knee jerk emotional response that will ignore all the great points you made.
 
 
 
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