MH17 flight down in Ukraine

That would be Siberian 1812. And it's not meaningless, it just shows that your argument is a load of crap.

I don't think you even have any idea what my argument is? If you do then you have serious problems articulating yourself.

Well, if you're going to argue that it couldn't possibly have been the Ukrainian "government" because they have no reason to do so, then how is a nice long list of accidental shoot downs supportive of that point?

No, my argument has been all along that it's unlikely that it was the Ukranian government and there is no reason whatsoever to believe that it is, whereas there are good reasons to believe it was the separatists. The fact that governments have shot down passenger jets before means practically nothing with regard to this incident.

Well the only people who have been shooting down planes in the area is the separatists, they are the only ones who have a non-tin foil hat conspiracy theory motive, it's looking incredibly likely that they have the weaponry required to shoot it down, so no it's not wild speculation. Instead it's by far the most likely explanation.

I'm not biased, if someone presents a credible motive and credible evidence then I'll consider it, until then there is nothing to consider. You've been brainwashed by Russia Today.



I'm fully aware of that, you've completely missed the point, I was simply pointing out that a case of Ukrainians shooting down a passenger jet years ago means very little. I think your post would be better directed at LightBlieSoldier.

And nobody implied that it does, and if they were meaning to imply that then surely they would have brought up Siberian 1812 and nor Iran 655

I don't even read Russia today. All I'm saying is that the Ukrainian government has already staged an illegal coup and in the past official military forces have mistaken passenger aircraft for military aircraft. These provide two clear scenarios in which the Ukrainians could have shot it down. I don't consider either scenario likely but because I am an impartial observer I recognize the possibility.

I'd also like to point out that no one has provide credible evidence that the rebels did it and you seem perfectly williñg to accept that narrative.


Posted from TSR Mobile

You sure sound impartial when you start your post with 'the Ukrainian government staged an illegal coup'.

There is no credible evidence that the separatists did it but it remains the only scenario that makes any sense. Until someone comes up with another credible scenario, then I maintain that the most likely explanation is that the separatists did it. So far all we have had to counter that is the tin foil hat 'the Ukrainians did it on purpose to blame the separatists' or the almost as unlikely idea that the Ukrainians mistook it for a military aircraft (whose military aircraft? The separatists don't have any)

I fail to see how you regard it as implausible that the Ukrainians did it to frame the separatists. These sorts of actions happen the whole time.

And yes it was an illegal coup. The elected president was forced out of office and an unelected man from the opposition was put in his place.

Anyhow I have no interest in arguing with someone who cannot even imagine a possibility other than the Russians being responsible. I guess you're only 15 so it's understandable that you are so narrow minded.


Posted from TSR Mobile

RussiaToday are refusing to blame their rebel mates for this. RT must be the only news channel where you'll hear absolutely nothing about Russia.

Realistically this is a case of Russia shooting down an Aircraft because they believed it was a Ukrainian threat, and over the coming days the Aircraft (Pilot) will more than likely be shouldered with the blame of flying in "uncertain territory". Right?

Why would Ukraine shoot this down?

Let's hope Putin doesn't get hold of the flight recorders.

I'm wondering what the USA's endgame is in warmongering like this. One hypothesis is that they're establishing a justification to invade Russia, which would decimate the Russian Armed Forces but more importantly their armaments, a steady stream of which Russia now sends down to Syria to support the Assad government, which the Zionist Neocons determining US foreign policy want to end because Israel considers a local state that's also stable and secular a threat.