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M268 - Motion on the Knight's Hill By-election Watch

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    M268 - Motion on the Knight's Hill By-election, The Rt. Hon. RayApparently MP
    Sonia Winifred (Labour) has resigned as a councillor in the Knight's Hill ward after it was found that she failed to declare that she was a council employee. Council employees are prohibited from standing for election. Her resignation naturally triggers a be-election which will cost the tax-payer £10,000 in administrative charges.

    Firstly, the House recognises that this by-election, caused by so trivial an error and with such a predictable end-result will to little to inspire faith in the political system amongst those citizens affected.

    The House accepts that this was most likely an innocent mistake, however calls for the Labour Party to donate £10,000 to Lambeth Council to go towards the administrative cost of holding the by-election. The House recognises that in these times of austerity the tax-payer shouldn't have to pay for the foolish mistakes of those who, quite frankly, should have known better and hopes that in future political parties will be weary of putting forward ineligible candidates.
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    Hear hear!
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    I can't say I know much about the case or even the rule itself, but is there a chance they knowingly deceived the electoral system on this? That's a pretty major thing and we should investigate that on top of the £10k charge even if on first inspection it looks trivial.

    Although if we're going to ask political parties to start fronting the costs for their crimes, then this is the least of Labour's worries, as they would owe a much fatter check to the Treasury for the period spanning 1997-2010
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    I agree with Jarred above. We need to investigate did she know!

    AYE
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    I can't say I know much about the case or even the rule itself, but is there a chance they knowingly deceived the electoral system on this? That's a pretty major thing and we should investigate that on top of the £10k charge even if on first inspection it looks trivial.
    (Original post by adam9317)
    I agree with Jarred above. We need to investigate did she know!

    AYE
    She was a teaching assistant at a local primary school. It is very unlikely there was anything untoward going on.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    She was a teaching assistant at a local primary school. It is very unlikely there was anything untoward going on.
    You never know, with anyone!

    Lets take for example Jimmy Saville, he was a TV presenter who did charity work in hospitals!
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    Although if we're going to ask political parties to start fronting the costs for their crimes, then this is the least of Labour's worries, as they would owe a much fatter check to the Treasury for the period spanning 1997-2010
    New Labour was doing fine controlling the deficit until the banking crisis. Bailing out those banks was controversial but ultimately necessary to prevent an even greater calamity. Imo, its the banks who owe us for that one.


    ^Graph showing national debt.
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    You never know, with anyone!

    Lets take for example Jimmy Saville, he was a TV presenter who did charity work in hospitals!
    You misunderstand me. She was a council employee in the capacity of teaching assistant at a primary school. She hadn't exactly infiltrated the local political system. If anything it was a technicality that voided her candidature. This however was a technicality that they should have been aware of.

    The recent MHoC by-elections have stirred some unrest by those who say they're wasting time and disengaging people. This unnecessary by-election would be a RL equivalent. Except much dodgier because the reason is pretty pathetic.
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    So if she was a bad teaching assistant, in a failing school, it would have become an Academy, and therefore she would be allowed to remain on the Council.

    Anyway, those nominating her for the Council should have done their research and realised, so paying the cost of the by-election, albeit voluntarily, is not unreasonable.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    New Labour was doing fine controlling the deficit until the banking crisis. Bailing out those banks was controversial but ultimately necessary to prevent an even greater calamity. Imo, its the banks who owe us for that one.


    ^Graph showing national debt.
    Finally some sense!
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    Firstly, this needs to be fully investigated.

    Then, should she be found to knowingly deceive the council, she must pay the £10,000.

    Or, should she be found to have not knowingly deceived the council, the finances should be split between all parties involved in the matter.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    New Labour was doing fine controlling the deficit until the banking crisis. Bailing out those banks was controversial but ultimately necessary to prevent an even greater calamity. Imo, its the banks who owe us for that one.


    ^Graph showing national debt.
    Come on this graph does not really tell the story.

    Thatcher revolutionised the British economy from the socialist and fail Labour govt pre 1979. However this created a recession as a production of reform, which Major delt with over his 5 years (look at Rakas's sig) and then left new Labour with the Golden Economy which they slowly but surely ruined, which the Tories and Lib Dems are now having to deal with....
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    So if she was a bad teaching assistant, in a failing school, it would have become an Academy, and therefore she would be allowed to remain on the Council.

    Anyway, those nominating her for the Council should have done their research and realised, so paying the cost of the by-election, albeit voluntarily, is not unreasonable.
    Here, here.

    (Original post by Mattvr)
    Firstly, this needs to be fully investigated.

    Then, should she be found to knowingly deceive the council, she must pay the £10,000.

    Or, should she be found to have not knowingly deceived the council, the finances should be split between all parties involved in the matter.
    She immediately resigned as a teaching assistant once the mistake was discovered. There was clearly nothing untoward going on. She will be participating in this by-election and as a pre-requisite Labour should pay cost of organising an election that shouldn't have been necessary.

    It wouldn't be fair to charge the other Parties seeing as they weren't culpable in anyway shape or form.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    New Labour was doing fine controlling the deficit until the banking crisis. Bailing out those banks was controversial but ultimately necessary to prevent an even greater calamity. Imo, its the banks who owe us for that one.


    ^Graph showing national debt.
    I was merely making a joke that wasn't supposed to be taken as a serious political point, obviously I'm not gonna debate this. I don't want to be responsible for derailing the thread for a remark which was not supposed to be responded to My apologies.

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    She was a teaching assistant at a local primary school. It is very unlikely there was anything untoward going on.
    As I said, I don't know anything about the specifics of this case so I feel a little guilty about passing too much of a judgement and can't seem to find a very good source either, but I do think we have a right to be in the know with these sorts of electoral matters no matter how trivial they may seem at first, and whether the party itself could be implicated in any wrongdoing. You see the issue is that I find it difficult to understand how someone managed to get as far as being elected without this being discovered much earlier, either someone hasn't been doing their job of vetting candidates properly, or there's been a bit of dodginess going on, albeit very light dodginess.
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    (Original post by Will95206)
    Come on this graph does not really tell the story.

    Thatcher revolutionised the British economy from the socialist and fail Labour govt pre 1979. However this created a recession as a production of reform, which Major delt with over his 5 years (look at Rakas's sig) and then left new Labour with the Golden Economy which they slowly but surely ruined, which the Tories and Lib Dems are now having to deal with....
    I don't really want to derail the topic of debate away from my motion.

    However, it is clear that the massive deficit was due to the bank bailout. Prior to this the deficit doesn't go out of control at all. It is stable at stays at an acceptable level.

    The 'Golden Economy' turned out to have something ugly beneath the surface. Tory deregulation had far reaching repercussions which eventually lead to a global financial crisis.

    The Tories worked hard to blame Labour but it just wasn't quite convincing enough. That's why Cameron couldn't get himself a majority at the height of Labours unpopularity.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    She immediately resigned as a teaching assistant once the mistake was discovered. There was clearly nothing untoward going on. She will be participating in this by-election and as a pre-requisite Labour should pay cost of organising an election that shouldn't have been necessary.

    It wouldn't be fair to charge the other Parties seeing as they weren't culpable in anyway shape or form.
    I clearly didn't read every word that has already been said.

    Then the decision between the payment should be with Labour (and her, if Labour so wishes, but that's a matter for the Party). So, in other words, AYE.
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    I was merely making a joke that wasn't supposed to be taken as a serious political point, obviously I'm not gonna debate this. I don't want to be responsible for derailing the thread for a remark which was not supposed to be responded to My apologies.
    Don't worry about it haha I kinda regretted going off on that tangent as soon as I posted my reply lol

    As I said, I don't know anything about the specifics of this case so I feel a little guilty about passing too much of a judgement and can't seem to find a very good source either, but I do think we have a right to be in the know with these sorts of electoral matters no matter how trivial they may seem at first, and whether the party itself could be implicated in any wrongdoing. You see the issue is that I find it difficult to understand how someone managed to get as far as being elected without this being discovered much earlier, either someone hasn't been doing their job of vetting candidates properly, or there's been a bit of dodginess going on, albeit very light dodginess.
    Of course I agree and perhaps there should be a motion calling for a more formal investigation if enough people think its necessary (though I don't).

    The only 'harm done' is the waste of tax-payer's money. I hope this motion addresses that. Though I'm a committed Labour supporter I strongly believe that Parties should hold there hands up when it comes to gaffs. The problem with RL political parties is this mass shirking of responsibility that's become a staple of UK Politics. This is just one small case of course, but the philosophy behind the proposal is a big one.
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    (Original post by Mattvr)
    I clearly didn't read every word that has already been said.

    Then the decision between the payment should be with Labour (and her, if Labour so wishes, but that's a matter for the Party). So, in other words, AYE.
    :yy:
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    Very fair from whatever perspective you adopt. Aye.
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    Aye, though how come council employees can't become councillors? Conflict of interest, I suppose?
 
 
 
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