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    (Original post by Howard)
    Do you think we should also help all tobacco addicts that want to stop? They're normal people that became addicted to something too.
    Why would that be a bad idea?
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Why would that be a bad idea?
    Didn't say it was.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Do you think we should also help all tobacco addicts that want to stop? They're normal people that became addicted to something too.
    Yes, I think so, and we do - the NHS helpline, for one thing, and many private organisations.
    I wouldn't like to put forward any figures (money, how many to help) though. I'm talking in conceptual terms only.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Do you think we should also help all tobacco addicts that want to stop? They're normal people that became addicted to something too.
    You can get nicotine patchs on the NHS.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    It has an indirect effect. Drug addicts often burgle to support their habit. I wasn't aware of a 40 a day B&H man resorting to similar methods.
    Does a 40 a day B&H man need to? After all, he can always buy some papers and pick dogends out of the gutter outside office buildings if the worst comes to the worst.
    Certainly, when the sale of opiates was made illegal in the UK and USA no-one mentioned the fact that they caused burglary and shop-lifting as reasons to ban them. Government were far more concerned with moral objections to their use- just as the US government was when it made the consumption of alcohol illegal, with very similar effects. How far is the current behaviour of drug users caused by the illegality of their drug of choice? After all, opiates properly administered- without some of the more interesting additives and dilutants, in measured doses, with clean needles, when they are needed- do very little physical damage to takers, unlike alcohol and nicotine.
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    If the addictive component in drugs (that which gives the 'buzz) was removed the problem of addiction would be cured, or would it?
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    If the addictive component in drugs (that which gives the 'buzz) was removed the problem of addiction would be cured, or would it?
    You'd still have the problem of those already addicted. It would stop people becoming addicted if they were sensible. Whatever else they are, most addicts aren't sensible and addiction isn't just a matter of introducing someone to so much of an addictive substance and it all follows arithmetically. It varies. There are two aspects: the buzz and withdrawal symptoms. I don't know, but it's been said that the only kick from nicotine comes from relieving the early stages of withdrawal symptoms. With alcohol a lot of people can get a kick without becoming addicted. Equally, I've worked with alcoholics who drank a lot but got very little kick from it; the reason they drank was as a maintenance dosage which stopped withdrawal symptoms.
    With opiates it varies: they aren't necessarily as addictive as people believe. I knew a heroin addict who died about twenty five years ago. He had been a heroin addict for about fifty years when he died. He had become a heroin addict because it was supposed to cure him of morphine addiction, which he acquired after being wounded in World War I. He took a legally prescribed dose of heroin every day, enough to stop withdrawal symptoms, and lived a perfectly normal life apart from that. It's worth noticing that hundreds of thousands of soldiers were treated with morphine in both world wars and very few became addicted. In Vietnam thousands of US soldiers took heroin illegally. Immediately they returned to the USA they stopped with very little trouble.
    Methadone is prescribed to addicts because it is supposed to ease the addiction without giving a buzz. There are all kinds of reports about it, but it doesn't seem to work very well at easing addiction and a lot of people claim to get high on it, so the one attempt at your suggestion doesn't seem to work very well.
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    in my eyes there is no justification for drug abuse and those who are in death row whould be left there. they brought it on themselves, no one told them that it was good, they probably have been told on many occasions that it will eventually kill you if you are a long term druggie so they should not be helped and left alone as they prpbably want it!!!
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    Methadone is prescribed to addicts because it is supposed to ease the addiction without giving a buzz. There are all kinds of reports about it, but it doesn't seem to work very well at easing addiction and a lot of people claim to get high on it, so the one attempt at your suggestion doesn't seem to work very well.
    The methadone programme is nothing short of a joke. I have worked with homeless opiate abusers for almost three years and have seen not one get clean using Meths. Ive seen plenty folk die though. Many users only resort to it through desperation, as they feel it is actualy harder to get off that smack.

    Its only redeeming feature in my eyes is giving users the chance to get away from the chaotic cycle of crime and crazyness that accompany jeroin addiction.

    You may also find it interesting that the goverment have seen addiction as becoming such a problem in the next decade that they have recently released a substantial amount of cash (even by govermental standards) to address the issue. Wow. Im working in a boom industry.......
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    They should only be helped if they want to be helped. Theres no sense in sending someone to rehab unless they want to be there. If they dont want help, let them go their own way.
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    (Original post by Penthesilia)
    They should only be helped if they want to be helped. Theres no sense in sending someone to rehab unless they want to be there. If they dont want help, let them go their own way.
    Doesn't Australia have quite a liberal attitude to druggies? I'm sure I've read that the majority of Aussies want all A class drugs to be made legal and supplied by the government at public expense. They think it will reduce drug-related crime. The fact that it will give control over these 'unfortunates' to the government is neither here nor there!
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    (Original post by Uncledougsie)
    The methadone programme is nothing short of a joke. I have worked with homeless opiate abusers for almost three years and have seen not one get clean using Meths. Ive seen plenty folk die though. Many users only resort to it through desperation, as they feel it is actualy harder to get off that smack.

    Its only redeeming feature in my eyes is giving users the chance to get away from the chaotic cycle of crime and crazyness that accompany jeroin addiction.

    You may also find it interesting that the goverment have seen addiction as becoming such a problem in the next decade that they have recently released a substantial amount of cash (even by govermental standards) to address the issue. Wow. Im working in a boom industry.......
    Well, as I said above: perhaps the best thing to do would be to legalise drugs and apply health and safety and consumer protection laws to them. At the moment users spend thousands of millions on drugs, criminals make untaxed thousands of millions out of them, the government spends huge sums trying to stop people taking drugs to no purpose.
    The other option is the one adopted by the Chinese government in the 1950s: forced labour in isolated parts of the country for addicts to rehabilitate them, shoot drug dealers and persistent users. Problem- bloodily- solved. However, the Chinese government was an even bigger problem than widespread drug addiction for the Chinese people and committed more crimes and worse crimes than all the drug dealers and addicts combined.
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    Depends on the circumstances.
    No it doesn't. They should always be helped. For a selfish reason if not it will lead to increased crime, downward spiral of society...but principally because it is a horrific life for anyone to lead.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Do you think we should also help all tobacco addicts that want to stop? They're normal people that became addicted to something too.
    Yes I do. Cigs are a demerit good. The market overconsumes them. One way to reduce consumption is to help smokers who want to quit do just that.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    Yes I do. Cigs are a demerit good. The market overconsumes them. One way to reduce consumption is to help smokers who want to quit do just that.
    *cough* you can get nicotine patches in the NHS. I mentioned it upthere ^^ but it got lost. <sniff>
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    (Original post by Penthesilia)
    They should only be helped if they want to be helped. Theres no sense in sending someone to rehab unless they want to be there. If they dont want help, let them go their own way.
    I cna see that viewpoint, however, most of the rehab done in america is punitive and it seems to have a great impact. Im no friend of americas legal system but it seems to work. Perhaps the differences in culture affect this but Im sure we could learn a couple of things from them.....
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    (Original post by Uncledougsie)
    however, most of the rehab done in america is punitive and it seems to have a great impact. Im no friend of americas legal system but it seems to work. ...
    How long does it work for- ie, what long-term success rates are there? Does it work on a cost-effective basis? The US legal system seems in some respects to be a crude Keynesian employment scheme- is that the case here too?
    Virginia Berridge: Opium and the People discusses how and why opium use became medicalised or criminalised in Britain. Haven't read it yet, but it sounds interesting.
 
 
 
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