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I don't understand why everyone hates Michael Gove? Watch

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    I hear everyone celebrating his recent departure, and the media saying that he is "damaging" the education system, but from the things I'm hearing about his reforms they actually do not seem that bad.

    For starters, he's scrapping coursework, which isn't bad because let's face it, it's quite easy to meddle with coursework - cheat and that which probably means that it isn't a good indication of someone's potential!

    Gove is scrapping 'soft' gcses like hair and beauty, media studies and the like, but personally I think these are a waste of time anyway because if you want to be a hairdresser, I believe you only have to take a training course at a college - no gcses affiliated with this at all, and to be a journalist they prefer you do subjects like English and history or similar essay subjects at A level, they never look at media studies students. There are probably other useless subjects as well but these are to name a few.

    I hear he is making exams harder and is a firm believer in linear exams, but that's probably because an unrealistic number of people are passing the exams, and colleges and employers of low end jobs which probably only require all c's at gcse and a vocational college course may complain that their numeracy and literacy skills aren't C grade quality - they were just taught to regurgitate material - which leads to my point about linear exams; I think it's better that way because it teaches kids to maintain that knowledge and not forget material after they've taken the first module. I know some of you will argue that it puts more pressure because you will need to 'cram'. This is where I think the problem lies. If you learn and understand and go over material in class everyday, it will be inbuilt in your brain like how you know your own name, or relatives birthdays Etc. 'cramming' is for people who don't fully understand material because they weren't bothered to go over it until it becomes like second nature and so they open the textbook and regurgitate phrases only to forget it after the exam.
    I know I was going a bit overboard here. Haha. There are probably more good things I can think of about Gove, but this post is lengthy enough and I'm sorry about that so I'll leave it there.

    So my overall question basically is what is Michael gove actually doing that makes parents students and teachers hate him so much? Please don't be vague and do tell me how what he is doing is so negative.
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    Someone linked this comic in a similar thread a while ago: http://www.scribd.com/doc/223942213/...ove#fullscreen
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    (Original post by Kyle1198)
    I hear everyone celebrating his recent departure, and the media saying that he is "damaging" the education system, but from the things I'm hearing about his reforms they actually do not seem that bad.

    For starters, he's scrapping coursework, which isn't bad because let's face it, it's quite easy to meddle with coursework - cheat and that which probably means that it isn't a good indication of someone's potential!

    Gove is scrapping 'soft' gcses like hair and beauty, media studies and the like, but personally I think these are a waste of time anyway because if you want to be a hairdresser, I believe you only have to take a training course at a college - no gcses affiliated with this at all, and to be a journalist they prefer you do subjects like English and history or similar essay subjects at A level, they never look at media studies students. There are probably other useless subjects as well but these are to name a few.

    I hear he is making exams harder and is a firm believer in linear exams, but that's probably because an unrealistic number of people are passing the exams, and colleges and employers of low end jobs which probably only require all c's at gcse and a vocational college course may complain that their numeracy and literacy skills aren't C grade quality - they were just taught to regurgitate material - which leads to my point about linear exams; I think it's better that way because it teaches kids to maintain that knowledge and not forget material after they've taken the first module. I know some of you will argue that it puts more pressure because you will need to 'cram'. This is where I think the problem lies. If you learn and understand and go over material in class everyday, it will be inbuilt in your brain like how you know your own name, or relatives birthdays Etc. 'cramming' is for people who don't fully understand material because they weren't bothered to go over it until it becomes like second nature and so they open the textbook and regurgitate phrases only to forget it after the exam.
    I know I was going a bit overboard here. Haha. There are probably more good things I can think of about Gove, but this post is lengthy enough and I'm sorry about that so I'll leave it there.

    So my overall question basically is what is Michael gove actually doing that makes parents students and teachers hate him so much? Please don't be vague and do tell me how what he is doing is so negative.
    1. Wanted to remove the most respected pieces of literature from English.
    2. Changed things half-way through the year - scrapped English Speaking&Listenings after classes spent lesson upon lesson doing them.
    3. Making things harder that are already hard enough.
    4. Planning to change the grading system to numbers - THERE IS NO POINT.
    5. The list is endless.

    As for your point about scrapping soft subjects, yes that might be okay to you but not to everyone. Some people just aren't good at the decent things its as simple as that. I say: LET THEM DECIDE THEIR FUTURES NOT YOU NOR ANYONE ELSE. If they wanna do media, let them damn well do it.
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    I quite like his exam reforms. But I think he lacks people skills. If you want to make drastic changes (in general, anywhere), you need to work hard to get people on board, not alienate them by ridiculing them or dismissing their views. If you do, don't be surprised when the **** hits the fan.
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    (Original post by llys)
    I quite like his exam reforms. But I think he lacks people skills. If you want to make drastic changes (in general, anywhere), you need to work hard to get people on board, not alienate them by ridiculing them or dismissing their views. If you do, don't be surprised when the **** hits the fan.
    I don't mind the exam reforms or like making then Linear - I think it's better that way.

    I agree with you to be honest.
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    Gove had sensible ideas, he just implemented them in an inconsiderate and ignorant way.
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    Because he is a clown.
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    He appeared to make exams harder, and removed some of the easier ways to game them. He also upset the unions by demanding more work for less pay, and removing some of the teaching profession from the public sector.

    His opponents are a storming cauldron of vested interests, whose self-serving arguments have nonetheless been taken at face value by the media. I doubt most of those who claim to hate him have much knowledge of his views or the relative merits of adopting or not adopting his reforms.
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    He has done some stupid things. The biggest thing that effect me was the removal of January exams. While as an idea that is fine and to be honest is welcome into the school system and linear exams is a good idea. He decided to implement it for year 12s and year 13s at the same time meaning year 13s such as myself who were used to January exams at AS suddenly and to work different to aim for only June exams. No January exams should have happened only for the year 12s and let the year 13s carry on with their system. Just like if you change the syllabus of the exam it effects the new year doing it...not the year who have already done it for a year.

    Then there are other things that other people have said on here (changing the grade system when there is no need, scrapping most foreign authors from English literature). Gove is really set against vocational subjects or "easy" subjects. Not everyone is destined to be good at academic subjects, equally society would work with just academics we need vocational people. This isn't a question of intelligence but there are some people who are amazing at vocational jobs. Making them stay longer in full time education when they could be doing vocational jobs that they are good at and love is stupid.

    In principle some of his ideas aren't awful (some are just plain stupid) but it was the way he executed them that was really idiotic.

    Here is a few other stupid stuff he has done http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/10-...s-bad-8554.pdf
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    The short answer as to why everyone seems to hate Michael Gove is simply that it is fashionable to do so! Most people that spout the hatred line don't appear to hold informed opinions, just a few press soundbites.

    Of course no-one wants exams to toughen up when it's their turn to take them but surely it will be better for society as a whole if standards could be raised. Sadly, I suspect that for the sake of popularity within the teaching unions and the media, exams will dumb-down again with the possible re-introduction of modules. People can be so short-sighted and self-serving.

    You only have to spend 2 minutes on social media to see the pitiful standards in spelling, punctuation and grammar
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    He wants to send the education system back to the Victorian era and his (like many Conservative MPs) manner is very old fashioned and snobby, it's not up to him or his place to belittle someone's choices for the future
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    He has literally tried dismiss every criticism of his education policy by issuing a condescending statement via a department of education spokesperson

    Decoupling the AS grade from the A level is senseless and has received criticism from the likes of Cambridge - yet it's still going ahead. Removal of January exams I can understand, but the logic behind removing the AS level in order to restore rigor to a levels is far detached from reality
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    He appeared to make exams harder, and removed some of the easier ways to game them. He also upset the unions by demanding more work for less pay, and removing some of the teaching profession from the public sector.

    His opponents are a storming cauldron of vested interests, whose self-serving arguments have nonetheless been taken at face value by the media. I doubt most of those who claim to hate him have much knowledge of his views or the relative merits of adopting or not adopting his reforms.
    seems reasonable - I don't expect you'd be jumping for joy if you had to do more work for less pay either... would this make you a 'storming cauldron' whos self interested arguments should be dismissed?

    I'm actually sympathetic to some of what he was trying to do but...

    Abrasive personality

    Weird micromanaging tendancies - those odd diktats about the detail of the history and english curriculums.

    Bit off too much in one go - should have focussed on implementing free schools or toughening up the exam system in his first term. didn't appear to have 100% grip on either imo.

    Didn't have the nous to not kick upwards and picked a fight with the home secretary
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    seems reasonable - I don't expect you'd be jumping for joy if you had to do more work for less pay either... would this make you a 'storming cauldron' whos self interested arguments should be dismissed?
    It's reasonable those employees would dislike him, it's just not reasonable that the general public should dislike him because of that. More work for less pay is good for students and teachers, cet. par.. The difference is that those groups are not organised, spend much less time thinking about education policy specifically, and have few institutional links to the media. They also can't go on strike.

    I'm actually sympathetic to some of what he was trying to do but...

    Bit off too much in one go - should have focussed on implementing free schools or toughening up the exam system in his first term.
    I do somewhat agree here. Sir Humphrey isn't beaten quickly.

    Abrasive personality

    Weird micromanaging tendancies - those odd diktats about the detail of the history and english curriculums.

    didn't appear to have 100% grip on either imo.

    Didn't have the nous to not kick upwards and picked a fight with the home secretary
    But most of this is an uncharitable way of saying that he had a clear agenda that he implemented rigorously. I'd rather have one Gove than a dozen of the faceless MBAs who compose most of the cabinet under either party.
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    As for your point about scrapping soft subjects, yes that might be okay to you but not to everyone. Some people just aren't good at the decent things its as simple as that. I say: LET THEM DECIDE THEIR FUTURES NOT YOU NOR ANYONE ELSE. If they wanna do media, let them damn well do it
    Gove is really set against vocational subjects or "easy" subjects. Not everyone is destined to be good at academic subjects, equally society would work with just academics we need vocational people. This isn't a question of intelligence but there are some people who are amazing at vocational jobs. Making them stay longer in full time education when they could be doing vocational jobs that they are good at and love is stupid.
    I might have gotten the wrong message across. I never tried to say that we should all be academics and 'soft' subjects are 'useless'. I'm saying that courses like these are a waste of time because there are college courses you can take for hairdressing, and most people who want to be journalists will not get far with media studies - they prefer essay writing subjects.

    I do think "soft" or "vocational" subjects like BTEC's or vocational college courses should be kept because we need vocational people in our society, but only if the students aren't wasting their time doing a qualification they aren't going to get much use of.

    His opponents are a storming cauldron of vested interests, whose self-serving arguments have nonetheless been taken at face value by the media. I doubt most of those who claim to hate him have much knowledge of his views or the relative merits of adopting or not adopting his reforms.
    This is what its sounding like from people I hear from. No wonder they don't give a clear argument against Michael Gove's shake up

    A couple of you pointed out the separation of AS and A2 levels. I can see how that puts more pressure on students, because, correct me if I'm wrong, you have to take both of them at the end of year 13
    (the current year 10's) which also poses a problem for universities because your AS results determine your place and without them they have to rely on your GCSEs which is not reliable.

    Wouldn't a rational solution to this problem to have all year 12's take mock AS exams, have their teachers mark them, and universities could use them. I can see there would be some problems with that, such as 'mocks' might not be taken too seriously because, well, they're mocks, but on the other hand it might be taken serious because it would determine your university place. Teachers may be biased when marking but I'm sure if an examiner marks it, it would probably be very similar to the teacher's markings. I think it's worth a try anyway.

    As far as more work for less pay and free schools are concerned, I'm not sure what to think because I can see why teachers would not like the idea of that. I would be really pissed off if I had to do that, and it might not benefit the students - it could 'overwork' them, but it could cover more material in less time, so it could be good in some ways.

    Removing some of the teaching profession I think is quite inconsiderate. It means these teachers now will struggle to pay for bills, heating food etc. so this to me is making me think Gove is just thinking about money money and more money and our economy. Not the interests of people. I could be wrong.

    Free schools could be a good idea - Katie Price's son Harvey's school is closing or was closed down. It was a special needs school as you would of course expect so schools like that is like the 4 leaf clover, so she, along with parents of special kids wanted to open a free school like that to cater for Harvey's and similar children's needs, so it could be beneficial in that respect.

    Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I hear free schools don't need professional teachers, unqualified ones will do fine, I can see their point, but I'd imagine some may argue that it could damage their education, on the other hand some people have a natural talent to teach and so no qualification would be needed to prove that.

    Also in many areas there are school place shortages, and free schools I imagine are designed to be 'local' and for 'disadvantaged' pupils, so free schools could fill the shortages. That being said, I don't see why the local authority shouldn't invest in creating new schools if there are shortages, I don't really see why there should be a separate school for disadvantaged pupils (though in Harvey's case maybe I can see) and apart from Harvey's case, I don't see why parents and teachers and not the authorities would want to open up a new school?

    I'd love to hear further opinions


    Btw sorry for being really lengthy... again! I'll try not to go overboard
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    (Original post by Kyle1198)

    I'd love to hear further opinions
    Most of the changes he wants to make are fine - linear exams - no coursework in GCSEs

    The removal of Btecs etc is a ridiculous idea - he thinks that everyone has the same academic capacity as he and his grammar school friends


    He had no understanding of the pace of change in education - as a consequence he has had to slowdown a number of his policies - others he has rushed through in spite of the disruption to students and their education


    He is also guilty of making snap decisions that are ridiculous - EBacc would be one - with proper thinking/timing/consultation the idea of an EBacc could have been great - as it is it is not great

    Then you have numbers instead of grades - simply because he wants to be in the history books - there is no other reason for this
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    They're just going with the crowd. I bet most of the people don't even know what changes have been made, they're just jumping along on the 'we hate Give' bandwagon

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    Yeah numbers instead of grades does seem kinda dumb. If they want more 'discrimination' which is the reason for the change it should be like A*1 A*2 A*3, 3 being the highest 1 being the lowest so they can add more numbers, B1 B2 B3 etc so on forth. It sounds so much better to say I got 5 B3s and 5 A1' s than saying that but with numbers
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    Because people are taking their anger out on Michael Gove, that's why.

    People need to understand that the education in the UK needs a step up. Coursework is NOT fit-for-purpose at all. It should not take a substantial amount of your grade.

    Maybe the root of the problem lies in primary education, since the foundation of the brains of people are most likely to be affected at younger ages - i.e. people tend to learn much more quickly at a younger age and their brain is more plastic.
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    (Original post by Kyle1198)
    Yeah numbers instead of grades does seem kinda dumb. If they want more 'discrimination' which is the reason for the change it should be like A*1 A*2 A*3, 3 being the highest 1 being the lowest so they can add more numbers, B1 B2 B3 etc so on forth. It sounds so much better to say I got 5 B3s and 5 A1' s than saying that but with numbers
    Then why not drop the A*/A, since everyone will be getting them, and just have the number?

    Then we can replace this 1 2 3 4 5 with, say, A B C D E.

    Then, because it's silly for A-E to only span the range of, say, 90%-80% correct answers on the paper, we can make the exams harder.

    Then, to stop this silly cycle repeating itself, we can norm-reference the grades, so that the top 10% get an A, top 10-30% a B, etc.

    Which is exactly what Gove wants (and what we used to have).
 
 
 
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