Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    A collection of the best ever articles penned in the 2nd greatest newspaper this country has to offer (behind The Mail):

    Thomas the Tank Engine is racist
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ildren-parents

    The West should not be racist in supporting the right of Saudi women to drive
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...an-not-popular

    Stopping the EDL from point scoring is more important than the well-being of Muslim women
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...s-islamophobia

    'He was in his underpants eating a radish and an oyster at the same time' (actual title)
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...s-but-it-works
    ^My all time favourite. Trendy Grauniad poverty-chic in a £Million London house

    Feel free to add your favourites.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I think most of them constitute rather poor journalism apart from the third (the Laurie Penny article), where I think she's making an important point.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingMessi)
    I think most of them constitute rather poor journalism apart from the third (the Laurie Penny article), where I think she's making an important point.
    Which one? The Nick Lezard one?
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    Marco Pierre White is racist for cooking a Jamaican dish on TV:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...h-knorr-advert

    Cupcakes and the middle class people who eat them are secret Fascists:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...upcake-fascism

    Oversized breasts on female superhero's are sexist and misogynistic:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-sexism-comics
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The Guardian of Zion. The Torahgraph. The DailyMitzvah.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    It's like the Daily Mail, but for middle class leftists rather than upper working class, mini-fascists
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Why are so many white men trying to save the planet without the rest of us?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    The Guardian is just a load of simpering drivel written by mindless swine. They desperately try to act as left as possible, but rather then acting under the actual defined terms of what is supposed to be left-wing, they just go along with whatever trend that is currently considered right-on among North London champagne socialists who have spent so long in their cosy little bubble they've completely lost touch with reality.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    Which one? The Nick Lezard one?
    The third link in the OP.


    (Original post by imtelling)
    Marco Pierre White is racist for cooking a Jamaican dish on TV:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...h-knorr-advert

    Cupcakes and the middle class people who eat them are secret Fascists:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...upcake-fascism

    Oversized breasts on female superhero's are sexist and misogynistic:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-sexism-comics
    The cupcake fascism article is actually excellent. In academic circles the term 'fascist' has come to be used more and more frequently and more and more liberally viz. semantics, and I confess I'm not sure how I feel about that sort of semantic free-for-all (i.e. using 'fascist' to denote anyone the left don't really like). However, that statement comes with the huge caveat that, insofar as fascism refers to, at its fundamental roots, an attempt to manifest a hegemony, and insofar as this hegemony can be created on a cultural level (or sociocultural level) as well as a legal/governmental one, and insofar as it is typical of the middle (especially upper-middle) class to try and proselytize activities that have a lot more than just a whiff of classism and exclusivity about them, and insofar as they are trying to create a sociocultural hegemony in this manner, the article's underlying point is sound. I have the utmost respect for Tom Whyman as a cultural critic.

    Similarly, I think you've created a straw man with the last link. The 'oversized breasts' statement largely refers to the article's heading, and there is only a sentence or two to that effect. Also, whilst I believe that 'misogyny' has recklessly been deracinated from its semantic roots, and therefore comes to mean, wrongly, anything that people don't like about patriarchal culture, valuable points are still made. See my post on the first page. Our worldview and zeitgeist are created, not arbitrarily, but partly according to the cultural artefacts we consume, and I find it uncontroversial to suggest that there is a link between portraying females as primarily sexual objects - emphasis on 'objects' whose agency is limited to what males can do for them, and generally negative views of females and female agency.

    It seems to me that, generally, the conceptual framework behind every Guardian article cited here is sound, aside from the patently ridiculous one in the OP when a male tries to credibly speak in favour of continuing to limit female agency. As I say above - certainly cultural critics of this sort might make tenuous connections such as the smoke=racism one (which I freely admit is rot), but given the huge majority of society tends to blithely underestimate the ideological machinations of culture, I confess I prefer a few shots falling wide of the mark than no attempts being made at all.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imtelling)
    Marco Pierre White is racist for cooking a Jamaican dish on TV:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...h-knorr-advert

    Cupcakes and the middle class people who eat them are secret Fascists:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...upcake-fascism

    Oversized breasts on female superhero's are sexist and misogynistic:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-sexism-comics
    TBF I can agree with that last one. It's as almost if people with a passion for superheroes also have an obsession with large breasts
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    CiF is the worst, I think there must be quota because some of the stuff it truly barrel scrapping.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I keep wondering what would happen if the Guardian and the Daily Mail came together as a joint publication... The concoction would become unstable, react violently and explode in a mushroom cloud of white hot, vaporised bull****.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingMessi)
    .....
    There is only one cultural hegemony which is being forced onto the population, and its not twee middle class ideals. It's political correctness.

    Would you agree political correctness is fascist?

    Political correctness is the inquisitional thought process of the Marxist ideologue, who has a strict and unchanging opinion of the world. What does that remind you of?

    The Marxist ideologue who wrote the piece about cupcake fascism implied that the white people who cleaned their streets after the riots of 2011 were the fascists, and not the rioters themselves. ( he forgot to mention the non-white people who also cleaned their communities streets )

    Marxists are fascists. Just fascists who hate different people form other fascists.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by goldie56)
    TBF I can agree with that last one. It's as almost if people with a passion for superheroes also have an obsession with large breasts
    As well as big strong men in tight Lycra?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    As well as big strong men in tight Lycra?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W19wr5rXVHk
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imtelling)
    There is only one cultural hegemony which is being forced onto the population, and its not twee middle class ideals. It's political correctness.
    It only appears as though it is being 'forced' onto the population because it comes from a starting position of disadvantage. Naturally those who believe that consideration of various types of discourse are worth analysing and critiquing will need to be vociferous and, yes, occasionally strident in trying to make themselves heard. Such is the nature of being at a disadvantage.

    (Original post by imtelling)

    Would you agree political correctness is fascist?
    In the very broad sense of fascist that I disavow above, yes. However, insofar as the strict meaning of fascism requires the fascist party to be of the ruling class, no, I wouldn't, because those who argue for a greater consideration of cultural discourse are certainly not in the ideological ascendency.

    (Original post by imtelling)
    Political correctness is the inquisitional thought process of the Marxist ideologue, who has a strict and unchanging opinion of the world. What does that remind you of?
    I think I'd try to move away from the phrase 'political correctness', as its hijacking by Daily Mail bigots has bestowed upon it far too many negative connotations. I don't think that the general premise of Tom Whyman - that the individual receiver of culture, and indeed the individual creator of culture, has a responsibility to consider the ways in which their forms of discourse encode certain views, is tantamount to fascism. Intransigence =/= fascism.

    (Original post by imtelling)
    The Marxist ideologue who wrote the piece about cupcake fascism implied that the white people who cleaned their streets after the riots of 2011 were the fascists, and not the rioters themselves. ( he forgot to mention the non-white people who also cleaned their communities streets )
    I think he was being rather tongue-in-cheek here. Again - fascism doesn't simply mean 'violence', it connotes and denotes rather more than that. As Whyman says on his blog, fascism in this sense refers to the reduction of possibilities to a prescribed minimum number, and this is why he objects to things like 'Keep calm and have a cup of tea'. He would not have any objection to the sense of camaraderie and community involved in clearing up the streets. Equally, obviously I have colossal problems with those who rioted, but calling them 'fascist' is just wrong.

    (Original post by imtelling)
    Marxists are fascists. Just fascists who hate different people form other fascists.
    Again, 'fascism' implies being in an ascendency, which those on the left are certainly not. There is little hate in Tom Whyman; just a sense of general disdain and disappointment in the way in which capitalist ideology undermines human agency and potential. The Communism of the fascist Soviet Union is a world apart from the Marxism of Tom Whyman.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    The Guardian is just a load of simpering drivel written by mindless swine. They desperately try to act as left as possible, but rather then acting under the actual defined terms of what is supposed to be left-wing, they just go along with whatever trend that is currently considered right-on among North London champagne socialists who have spent so long in their cosy little bubble they've completely lost touch with reality.
    This.

    But then these rags aren't meant as clear impartial news sources, they're ideological news media entertainment for any given social and political niche.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingMessi)
    It only appears as though it is being 'forced' onto the population because it comes from a starting position of disadvantage. Naturally those who believe that consideration of various types of discourse are worth analysing and critiquing will need to be vociferous and, yes, occasionally strident in trying to make themselves heard. Such is the nature of being at a disadvantage.



    In the very broad sense of fascist that I disavow above, yes. However, insofar as the strict meaning of fascism requires the fascist party to be of the ruling class, no, I wouldn't, because those who argue for a greater consideration of cultural discourse are certainly not in the ideological ascendency.



    I think I'd try to move away from the phrase 'political correctness', as its hijacking by Daily Mail bigots has bestowed upon it far too many negative connotations. I don't think that the general premise of Tom Whyman - that the individual receiver of culture, and indeed the individual creator of culture, has a responsibility to consider the ways in which their forms of discourse encode certain views, is tantamount to fascism. Intransigence =/= fascism.



    I think he was being rather tongue-in-cheek here. Again - fascism doesn't simply mean 'violence', it connotes and denotes rather more than that. As Whyman says on his blog, fascism in this sense refers to the reduction of possibilities to a prescribed minimum number, and this is why he objects to things like 'Keep calm and have a cup of tea'. He would not have any objection to the sense of camaraderie and community involved in clearing up the streets. Equally, obviously I have colossal problems with those who rioted, but calling them 'fascist' is just wrong.



    Again, 'fascism' implies being in an ascendency, which those on the left are certainly not. There is little hate in Tom Whyman; just a sense of general disdain and disappointment in the way in which capitalist ideology undermines human agency and potential. The Communism of the fascist Soviet Union is a world apart from the Marxism of Tom Whyman.
    How old are you?

    I ask this question because the society I have grown up in is dominated by a politically correct hegemony. Political correctness is the establishment. I suppose it didn't used to be but it most certainly is now.

    The fascism of Tom Whyman is no different from the fascism of all other modern Marxists. There are no modern Marxists who are pure 'karl Marxists'. Modern Marxism has removed itself almost completely from the ideas of Karl Marx.

    Modern marxists are like nazis, only instead of blaming white Jews for everything wrong in the world, they blame white Gentiles -- Modern Marxists are either Jews who hate white Gentiles, or white Gentiles who hate themselves, or non-whites who hate both white gentile and white Jews.

    Working class people are just bystanders, watching this yuppie hate fest play itself out.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    I keep wondering what would happen if the Guardian and the Daily Mail came together as a joint publication... The concoction would become unstable, react violently and explode in a mushroom cloud of white hot, vaporised bull****.
    I want to live to see that day
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imtelling)
    How old are you?

    I ask this question because the society I have grown up in is dominated by a politically correct hegemony. Political correctness is the establishment. I suppose it didn't used to be but it most certainly is now.

    The fascism of Tom Whyman is no different from the fascism of all other modern Marxists. There are no modern Marxists who are pure 'karl Marxists'. Modern Marxism has removed itself almost completely from the ideas of Karl Marx.

    Modern marxists are like nazis, only instead of blaming white Jews for everything wrong in the world, they blame white Gentiles -- Modern Marxists are either Jews who hate white Gentiles, or white Gentiles who hate themselves, or non-whites who hate both white gentile and white Jews.

    Working class people are just bystanders, watching this yuppie hate fest play itself out.
    Twenty-one.

    I think we're coming at this from different angles, perhaps. There is a difference between public political correctness, which is the sort of thing that involves criticising Michael Macintyre for mocking those with disabilities, say, and the sort of criticism Tom Whyman performs. Regarding the former, I'd agree with you. Regarding the latter, I wouldn't. Those arguing the link between culture and zeitgeist-formation are still generally a shouted-down minority. Also it's still far more acceptable in most circles of mine - and most circles around, I'd conjecture - to make a rape joke than criticise someone at a social gathering for making a rape joke.

    As a result I still cannot see Whyman's viewpoints as fascist. Especially not since they refer to an increasing of human potential and possibility, not a reduction of it. See the article on his blog about Cupcake Fascism again.

    Despite our disagreements above, I totally share your reservations of the last sentence. I feel that the Left overburdens itself with theory and jargon that make its criticism and value-system inherently elitist and exclusionary. Some of this theory is necessary, but much of it is, perhaps, not. I feel that certain strands of feminism only serve to alienate working-class females. But this is not, however, something which Whyman can be accused off, and my discomfort with certain left-wing concerns does not invalidate their entire enterprise.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.