Astrology should be used in healthcare - Tory MP

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Kvothe the Arcane
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#41
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#41
Ooh. Most curious :holmes:.
Thanks for linking.
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Puddles the Monkey
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#42
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#42
(Original post by n00)
Doesn't it work even when patients know they are receiving a placebo?
(Original post by keromedic)
I don't think so? I mean it's not as if there are any mystical healing things out there!
But somehow the belief that something important has worked has cause certain people's pain to go away!
Placebo effect has a positive benefit even when the person is aware of the placebo effect.
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CJKay
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#43
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#43
(Original post by yo radical one)
It's weird, I have noticed that right wing people are far more likely to believe really stupid bull**** like homeopathy, astrology etc.
Both the left and the right side are, depending on how far each way you go. E.g. hippies.
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yo radical one
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Zen Baphomet)
Really? I have noticed it overwhelmingly among the left.
I admit you get trippy new age belief with left wing people, but a lot of really typical Conservative-voting country-boy wife types are massively into really unscientific things like homeopathy, going on spiritual retreats etc, I have noticed.
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Zen Baphomet
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#45
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#45
(Original post by yo radical one)
I admit you get trippy new age belief with left wing people, but a lot of really typical Conservative-voting country-boy wife types are massively into really unscientific things like homeopathy, going on spiritual retreats etc, I have noticed.
I am really confused here, I run in a lot of far-right/conservative circles and I just don't encounter it , most are very dismissive or hyper-critical of such things I have found.
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yo radical one
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Zen Baphomet)
I am really confused here, I run in a lot of far-right/conservative circles and I just don't encounter it , most are very dismissive or hyper-critical of such things I have found.
Not far-right, really stereotypical upper middle class tories really, but fair enough
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Zen Baphomet
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#47
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#47
(Original post by yo radical one)
Not far-right, really stereotypical upper middle class tories really, but fair enough
Oh well...*wanders off*
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OllieDS
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Zen Baphomet)
Astrology is all about time and place ironically.
lol, irony aside it's still *******s. Agree or disagree?
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Fullofsurprises
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#49
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#49
(Original post by ClickItBack)
Personally I'd say the people who tend to believe that stuff as well as 'inner energy', go in for paganism/Druidic rituals, believe in new age nonsense like healing crystals etc are overwhelmingly made up of left wing idiots rather than right wing idiots.

As for the MP, it's quite bad enough to believe in astrology in the first place, but how stupid do you have to be to proclaim and defend that ignorance in public - without any evidence to back up your claims?
A lot of the alternative fringe people tend to be rather outside politics, you don't meet that many who have a solid understanding of current political issues to any depth. I think people who believe in pseudoscience often have rather muddled views in other areas, but my personal experience is that when you scratch below the surface, they are often rather reactionary or small-c conservative.
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Fullofsurprises
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Zen Baphomet)
I am really confused here, I run in a lot of far-right/conservative circles and I just don't encounter it , most are very dismissive or hyper-critical of such things I have found.
It depends who you mix with really. Certainly I can think of several Tory-minded friends who are also quite into things like homeopathy. However, I can also think of leftish people who are.

One common difference between believers in pseudoscience and quackery and those who aren't is the extent to which they have been exposed to science education beyond the GCSE level.
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Puddles the Monkey
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
A lot of the alternative fringe people tend to be rather outside politics, you don't meet that many who have a solid understanding of current political issues to any depth. I think people who believe in pseudoscience often have rather muddled views in other areas, but my personal experience is that when you scratch below the surface, they are often rather reactionary or small-c conservative.
Astrology/mediums/psychics etc. are quite popular in trashy right-wing newspapers/daytime TV aren't they?
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Burridge
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#52
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Just finished listening to his interview with Julia Hartley-Brewer on LBC, one word - bonkers. It genuinely concerns me that this man sits on various health and science committees in Parliament.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#53
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#53
Burn the heaven!


The fact this guy is on a political science committee says everything you need to know about the relationship politics has with science

(Original post by Fullofsurprises)

One common difference between believers in pseudoscience and quackery and those who aren't is the extent to which they have been exposed to science education beyond the GCSE level.
But then you have the lovey duvvy hippy types as well :yes:
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Zen Baphomet
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#54
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#54
(Original post by OllieDS)
lol, irony aside it's still *******s. Agree or disagree?
I'm going to take the the risk of sounding like a fruit-bat and just out and out say I think Astrology has merit.

Though I don't think it should be introduced to the NHS.
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Fullofsurprises
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Burridge)
Just finished listening to his interview with Julia Hartley-Brewer on LBC, one word - bonkers. It genuinely concerns me that this man sits on various health and science committees in Parliament.
It's appalling - you can only hope that the full-time permanent professionals who run the health services are ignoring him, as he will eventually go away like all ministers.

Cameron has quite a record now for appointing anti-science people, his previous Environment Secretary was a climate change denialist and one or two others have crackpot views on some important issues. I imagine he thinks they are 'of the people' and therefore will garner votes given the widespread belief in such idiocies.

Labour were just as bad in their own way, appointing people to run schools with extremist Creationist views and attempting to cancel the funding for the Hadley Research Centre, which is one of the world's leading climate science laboratories.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Zen Baphomet)
I'm going to take the the risk of sounding like a fruit-bat and just out and out say I think Astrology has merit.

Though I don't think it should be introduced to the NHS.
What sort of merit? Its vague barnum statements designed to seem exclusive to one person while actually being very wide reaching. Look at your average horoscope - those predictions could apply to anyone.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Zen Baphomet
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
What sort of merit? Its vague barnum statements designed to seem exclusive to one person while actually being very wide reaching. Look at your average horoscope - those predictions could apply to anyone.

Posted from TSR Mobile
When I think Astrology I don't tend to think Horroscopes, I tend to be thinking more in the direct of Goetic/Solomonic Occult workings.

As someone who conned-tarot readings for years, I am fully aware of the power of vague far-reaching statements though don't worry.

Edit: Unrelated topic, are you still considering Asatru/Norse Paganism?
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Fullofsurprises
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Zen Baphomet)
I'm going to take the the risk of sounding like a fruit-bat and just out and out say I think Astrology has merit.

Though I don't think it should be introduced to the NHS.
It has merit as an interesting example of historical attempts to theorise about observed phenomena and doing the best they could with limited understanding to relate the movement of the stars and planets to human psychology. There may well be effects on people's personalities depending on what time of year they were born (and I believe there is some good scientific research evidence on this), but that doesn't mean it's all due to the movement of Mars in the Zodiac. :rolleyes:
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ClickItBack
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
A lot of the alternative fringe people tend to be rather outside politics, you don't meet that many who have a solid understanding of current political issues to any depth. I think people who believe in pseudoscience often have rather muddled views in other areas, but my personal experience is that when you scratch below the surface, they are often rather reactionary or small-c conservative.
Personally I'd say they tend much more towards small-l liberal. It's the people who believe in the traditional religions that tend to be more conservative from what I've seen. Not that the latter is any more commendable than the former.

Either way, this MP is an idiot of the highest order. As I said already, it's one thing to believe in that stuff - but to proclaim your ignorance to the world given his position? That takes a brazen stupidity and lack of understanding of public image/persona which I find hard to fathom.
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Fullofsurprises
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#60
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#60
(Original post by ClickItBack)

Either way, this MP is an idiot of the highest order. As I said already, it's one thing to believe in that stuff - but to proclaim your ignorance to the world given his position? That takes a brazen stupidity and lack of understanding of public image/persona which I find hard to fathom.
It's tempting to think he's just a fool, but Lady Cynicism is whispering in my ear to dig a little deeper. His Wikipedia entry is illuminating and has a lot of background information about his (and Jeremy Hunt's) support for alternative medicine generally. I wonder if this is a case of representing an industry body? Astrology is a big business now - the various cable/satellite astrology channels and shows, magazines and phone lines, tarot, etc, generate a lot of revenue for the rather cynical companies that run them. Perhaps that's what's at the bottom of this puzzling story. Money and Tory MPs (come to that, MPs generally) are often closely related.
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