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    (Original post by MuniE)
    If i was in charge of the isreali army i would assassinate the guy then wait for those crowds to gather then blow the crap out of them too...
    Have you thought of joining the US army? It seems you'd fit in very well.
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    "If i was in charge of the isreali army i would assassinate the guy then wait for those crowds to gather then blow the crap out of them too..."

    Why? wouldn't you be a bit peeved off if as a Palestinian you had watched Israel nick land off you and the surrounding arab countries (Syria, Jordan, Egypt) since the 1940's?. The 1967 War came about as a result of Israels constant pressure applied to the border with Syria; to view Israel as 'innocent victims' of Palestinian aggression is an unbalanced view of the matter. While there is no doubt Hamas target civilians you have to ask whether they do so out of pure hate for Israelis or because they are trying to draw attention the only way they can to their cause, a cause that is supported strongly in opposition by the USA. Israel has the highest amount of foriegn aid for a country in the ENTIRE World, rather worrying when there are many places with far lower living standards etc.
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    Have you thought of joining the US army? It seems you'd fit in very well.
    No, I am Canadian and we don't have an army, no money in the military either.
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    (Original post by G4ry)
    Well it was bound to happen, the new guy's been given the boot. See here I pity the poor guy who's replacing him; anyone want to place bets on how long he lasts?
    I wouldn't buy any long playing records if I was him.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I wouldn't buy any long playing records if I was him.
    Well unlike last time, where they quickly publicised the name of the new leader, they're being far quieter over announcing the successor to Rantissi.

    Seems they're scared
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    There is a distinct difference between the militant actions of the two:

    Hamas: Terrorist attacks designed to kill as many as possible, often innocent Israeli civilians.

    Israeli Government: Precision attack at the head of a known terrorist group, killing only him.

    There is a distinct difference which means that the Israeli government did not lower itself to the level of Hamas.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    There is a distinct difference between the militant actions of the two:

    Hamas: Terrorist attacks designed to kill as many as possible, often innocent Israeli civilians.

    Israeli Government: Precision attack at the head of a known terrorist group, killing only him.

    There is a distinct difference which means that the Israeli government did not lower itself to the level of Hamas.
    I think people misuse the term "precision". It seems to be used to imply a bullet to the head weapon, which it simply isn't. Precision just means it's very likely to hit the target (cf with WW2 bombs where a hit within 300m of the target was considered accurate). Precision doesn't mean "collateral damage" (killing bystanders, innocent or otherwise) is eliminated.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    I think people misuse the term "precision". It seems to be used to imply a bullet to the head weapon, which it simply isn't. Precision just means it's very likely to hit the target (cf with WW2 bombs where a hit within 300m of the target was considered accurate). Precision doesn't mean "collateral damage" (killing bystanders, innocent or otherwise) is eliminated.
    Yes, it is misused sometimes, precision is generally just the opposite of 'carpet' bombing etc where no real target is specified, instead a wide area is bombed.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    There is a distinct difference between the militant actions of the two:

    Hamas: Terrorist attacks designed to kill as many as possible, often innocent Israeli civilians.

    Israeli Government: Precision attack at the head of a known terrorist group, killing only him.

    There is a distinct difference which means that the Israeli government did not lower itself to the level of Hamas.
    The israeli troops have also been known to shoot people on the borders for no apparent reason (see british peace activist killed a while back). They may use precision attacks but how offten on the news do you hear that a child has also been killed in the attack? Hamas uses what it has to make their point to the world I am not saying that they are right because terrorism is never right. But then I deffinately don't agree with the stance that the Israelis are taking. They are killing spiritual leaders and then not expecting retaliation. There will be retaliation if you MURDER someone who is important to a group of people.

    The dictionary deffinition of terrorism is this

    "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

    Personally I believe that this describes what the Ireali government is doing just as much as it describes the actions of Hamas
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    (Original post by randdom)
    I deffinately don't agree with the stance that the Israelis are taking. They are killing spiritual leaders and then not expecting retaliation. There will be retaliation if you MURDER someone who is important to a group of people.
    That's not the Israeli stance at all - in fact, the Israelis keep telling everyone (absolutely correctly, in my view) that all Hamas wants to do is attack Israel. The current strategy intends to reduce the capacity of Palestinian terrorists to attack. The various security fences being erected are one facet of this; the targeted killings are another. I doubt the Israeli government believes it can ever convince terrorist groups to accept Israel; as a result, it is attempting to create a situation where this will not be an issue because these groups will be incapable of doing anything about the existence of Israel.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    That's not the Israeli stance at all - in fact, the Israelis keep telling everyone (absolutely correctly, in my view) that all Hamas wants to do is attack Israel. The current strategy intends to reduce the capacity of Palestinian terrorists to attack. The various security fences being erected are one facet of this; the targeted killings are another. I doubt the Israeli government believes it can ever convince terrorist groups to accept Israel; as a result, it is attempting to create a situation where this will not be an issue because these groups will be incapable of doing anything about the existence of Israel.
    1) I believe that what the isrealis are doing when attacking these leaders is murder because they haven't been tride and convicted of anything

    2) If Isreal gave Palistine the iderpendance the attacks would probably stop because Hamas would not get the support.

    3) Isreal in my view are also commiting terrorist acts so does that mean that isreali leaders can be assisnated? In my view it doesn't but neither should the Hamas leaders.

    Isreal should be taking part in peace talks not trying to blow up people.
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    (Original post by G4ry)
    Well it was bound to happen, the new guy's been given the boot. See here I pity the poor guy who's replacing him; anyone want to place bets on how long he lasts?
    why do you start threads that will cause dispute?
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    (Original post by randdom)
    1) I believe that what the isrealis are doing when attacking these leaders is murder because they haven't been tride and convicted of anything

    2) If Isreal gave Palistine the iderpendance the attacks would probably stop because Hamas would not get the support.

    3) Isreal in my view are also commiting terrorist acts so does that mean that isreali leaders can be assisnated? In my view it doesn't but neither should the Hamas leaders.

    Isreal should be taking part in peace talks not trying to blow up people.
    1) Most of them have been tried and convicted of many things. Sheik Yassin, for example, spent many years in an Israeli jail. He was released as a result of negotiations with the PA. During these negotiations, the PA promised to stop the suicide bombings. In addition, Yassin was the leader of a terrorist organisation. There was no need to convict him - he freely admitted (and was very proud of) being responsible for many Israeli deaths. The same is true of many other terrorist leaders around the world.

    2) Between 1948 and 1967 Israel did not control the West Bank or Gaza yet suffered in excess of 1,000 deaths to terrorist attack. You can see why the country wants to play it safe. In addition, thought Hamas' support would be reduced, it is likely to retain a substantial following (as a result of the economic deprivation of many Palestinian areas) and thus continue its attacks. Finally, Hamas does not accept Israel's existence, hence will not stop until the state is removed from the face of the earth.

    3) There have been attempts to try Ariel Sharon as a war criminal. They have not succeeded.

    I believe the struggle between the Western and Islamic world in general, and the Israel/Palestine problem in particular, will never end so long as the West remains so much wealthier than the Islamic world. The poverty levels in Gaza are absolutely awful (thinking of the tragic levels of infant mortality and similar blights on the region really does keep me up at night). In my view the solution to these problems has to come from inside - until more egalitarian societies are established in the Arab world its citizens will continue to suffer (for example many Saudis and Iranians remain poor despite their countries' huge wealth from oil). I think right now the most positive move for the Israe/Palestine concflict would be for Saudi Arabia's royal family (worth hundreds of billions) to donate some substantial aid to the PA, so it can properly control its people and improve their economic situation. I can't understand why Arabs around the world, who are clearly extremely animated by their Palestinian brothers' plight, have not already done this - many are far from lacking in funds.
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    for example many Saudis and Iranians remain poor despite their countries' huge wealth from oil
    Iran is strictly not a part of the Arab world...and perhaps their poverty is due to the economical restrictions and boycotts on them....
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    (Original post by zazy)
    Iran is strictly not a part of the Arab world...and perhaps their poverty is due to the economical restrictions and boycotts on them....
    I realise that ethnically, Iranians are not Arabs (they're Indo-Europeans, I believe). However, the state of Iran is politically alinged with Arab nations (indeed, is the most extreme among them on many issues).

    btw did anyone hear Kaddafi's solution to this problem? Merge the two states and call it Isratine (saw that on Have I Got News For You last Friday).
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    (Original post by H&E)
    I realise that ethnically, Iranians are not Arabs (they're Indo-Europeans, I believe). However, the state of Iran is politically alinged with Arab nations (indeed, is the most extreme among them on many issues).

    btw did anyone hear Kaddafi's solution to this problem? Merge the two states and call it Isratine (saw that on Have I Got News For You last Friday).
    Just don't listen to those people...dead silly...I agree that Palestinians and Isreali's will never be able to live in peace together...it's more of a racial issue...
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    (Original post by zazy)
    Just don't listen to those people...dead silly...I agree that Palestinians and Isreali's will never be able to live in peace together...it's more of a racial issue...
    There's also a matter of demography - there are already almost as many Arabs as Israelis in the area controlled by Israel (46% are Arabs). The Arab population is growing far more quickly (far too quickly, in my opinion, given how poor it already is) and will thus soon exceed the Israeli one. Hence a one state solution would mean the end of a Jewish democratic state. Doesn't take a genius to see why the Israelis dont like that option.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    There's also a matter of demography - there are already almost as many Arabs as Israelis in the area controlled by Israel (46% are Arabs). The Arab population is growing far more quickly (far too quickly, in my opinion, given how poor it already is) and will thus soon exceed the Israeli one. Hence a one state solution would mean the end of a Jewish democratic state. Doesn't take a genius to see why the Israelis dont like that option.
    By the way, that illustrates one of the flaws of democracy: In a state where there are a few distinct and separate interest groups, democracy will have trouble to work: In the long term, those who proliferate the fastest (in most cases the poorer group) will gain the upper hand. Is that fair?
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    (Original post by zizero)
    By the way, that illustrates one of the flaws of democracy: In a state where there are a few distinct and separate interest groups, democracy will have trouble to work: In the long term, those who proliferate the fastest (in most cases the poorer group) will gain the upper hand. Is that fair?
    As Churchill said, it's the worst form of government except for all the other ones. Even in the UK you can see major problems - Labour got 40% of the vote but something near 70% of MP's.

    I read somewhere in about 25 years a similar situation will arise in Northern Ireland - the Catholics will cease to be a minority. One would imagine that not many people will be holidaying in Belfast around that time.
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    (Original post by zazy)
    why do you start threads that will cause dispute?
    Pretty much any thread can cause dispute if one wishes it to. It doesn't cause dispute from my point of view, i stated the facts and said i pity the guy who has to replace him. It's the others who have gone off on a tangent talking about history and going back to over 40 years ago.
 
 
 
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