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Hamas keep new leader secret; an IDF success watch

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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    The new leader's name is in The Times today.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...079548,00.html
    I wonder who he gets his insurance through?
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Its amazing how quiet some people go when you ask for evidence. Your pathetic attempt at character assasination in order to divert the arguement away from the fact that you are quite clearly WRONG is not working, Jonatan.
    Oh please. Im not online 24/7. As for evidence of European support for teh palestinian authorities, I thought it was common knowledge that they receive foreign aid. If you are in doubt I am sure you can find some info from UNWRA or just make a google search. I dont have any specific links (In English) right now but I am sure you can find the data from a simple Google search. Try "Foreign AId +palestine" or something similar.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Just because he has said these things on other threads does not mean that his oppinion on this topic is any less important than anyone else. Maybe you are reading his posts on the topic (not the one about you personally) and not taking in what he is saying. On this thread he has posted some informative posts and I agree with him that America is supporting Isreal more than the Palistinians and that this is wronge.
    As I have said before I recognise that the US support the Israelis more than the palestinians (for various reasons) but I dont see why this is any worse than EUrropes rather one sided support for the palestinian authorities. When we are talking about bias in teh ME conflict. CHeck out the workings of teh general assembly. They have condemmned atacks on Egyptian civilians, they have condemned the assasination of yassin, and they have condemned Israels construction of the security fence, BUT they fail to condem atacks against Israeli civilians. This is why the US has vetoed so many resolutions. They require that the resolutions adress both sides of the conflict, but the Arab states has no interest in condemming the PA, because to them it doesnt matter if the resolution goes through or not. To them, a US veto is just another thing they can use as propaganda.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    As I have said before I recognise that the US support the Israelis more than the palestinians (for various reasons) but I dont see why this is any worse than EUrropes rather one sided support for the palestinian authorities. When we are talking about bias in teh ME conflict. CHeck out the workings of teh general assembly. They have condemmned atacks on Egyptian civilians, they have condemned the assasination of yassin, and they have condemned Israels construction of the security fence, BUT they fail to condem atacks against Israeli civilians. This is why the US has vetoed so many resolutions. They require that the resolutions adress both sides of the conflict, but the Arab states has no interest in condemming the PA, because to them it doesnt matter if the resolution goes through or not. To them, a US veto is just another thing they can use as propaganda.
    The UN don't just ignor the palistinian attacks but the fact of the matter is that the isreali attacks are being carried out by the government the Palistinian attacks are being carried out by a terrorist group so just as the UN wouldn't condem britain for IRA attacks it won't condem the whole of Palistine for the actions of the terrorist group. I agree that Europe may be slightly more sypathetic to the palistinians but very few if any of the European governments have actually pledged their support to the palistinians I mean in Britain our government still officially is support Isreal. The US on the other side is comepletely on the side of Isreal it supports them in everything they do even if they are killing many innocent palistinians in the process. I don't think that is right. The US havn't vetoed resolution because they are wronge they have vetoed resolutions because they support isreal in everything they do. Why right to Isreal have to be in palistine anyway? Every year they take more land and build more isreali only settlement and I don't see how that can be justified the UN condem them for a reason.
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    With regards to the UN:

    There are 21 Muslim countries. There is one Jewish country. The UN works on a majority system. As the Americans would say, "you do the math" and work out why the UN naturally tends to support the Arab point of view.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Oh please. Im not online 24/7. As for evidence of European support for teh palestinian authorities, I thought it was common knowledge that they receive foreign aid. If you are in doubt I am sure you can find some info from UNWRA or just make a google search. I dont have any specific links (In English) right now but I am sure you can find the data from a simple Google search. Try "Foreign AId +palestine" or something similar.
    Actually, I'm sure you can find the information as it is your point of arguement. Its not common for someone to try and find evidence to support someone elses arguement!

    Why dont your try "foreign aid + palestine" in google and then report back to us with your findings. That is of course when you have time to speak to use lowly forum nerds!
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Actually, I'm sure you can find the information as it is your point of arguement. Its not common for someone to try and find evidence to support someone elses arguement!

    Why dont your try "foreign aid + palestine" in google and then report back to us with your findings. That is of course when you have time to speak to use lowly forum nerds!
    If you are going to reject the fact that european countries has provided extensive amounts of aid to teh palestinian authorities then I quite honestly do not see why I should even bother. So that you can tell me how all data is based on pro-Israeli biased sources?
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    If you are going to reject the fact that european countries has provided extensive amounts of aid to teh palestinian authorities then I quite honestly do not see why I should even bother. So that you can tell me how all data is based on pro-Israeli biased sources?
    Of course the Palestinians get aid, but just not nearly on the scale that the Israelis get aid, nor the same type of aid the Israelis get. If the Palestinians get so much aid, where is it all going? Their people are poor and they dont have a military.

    If you can not find this damn info, then please quit making lame excuses and just admit it!
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    If you are going to reject the fact that european countries has provided extensive amounts of aid to teh palestinian authorities then I quite honestly do not see why I should even bother. So that you can tell me how all data is based on pro-Israeli biased sources?
    Just in case:

    Here is one article aboutteh topic:

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBu...20040227a.html
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Of course the Palestinians get aid, but just not nearly on the scale that the Israelis get aid, nor the same type of aid the Israelis get. If the Palestinians get so much aid, where is it all going? Their people are poor and they dont have a military.

    If you can not find this damn info, then please quit making lame excuses and just admit it!
    Yes, the people are poor indeed. They dont ever see as much as a penny. Arafat is not very poor however, and neitehr is the rest of the PA staff.
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    well, on the issue of israel killing the leader of hamas, Ariel Sharon had to make some sort of similar gesture, after he has announced that he is withdrawing from some settlements, he needs to prove that he is still as determined as ever, both to his own parliamentary coalition and to the terrorist organisations (view the increase of terror attacks during the Oslo peace process).
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Of course the Palestinians get aid, but just not nearly on the scale that the Israelis get aid, nor the same type of aid the Israelis get. If the Palestinians get so much aid, where is it all going? Their people are poor and they dont have a military.

    If you can not find this damn info, then please quit making lame excuses and just admit it!
    And here you have another source:

    "However, corruption is still rampant and there is widespread disillusionment among ordinary Palestinians at the relative luxury that many Fatah leaders live in. On Saturday, more than 300 members of Mr Arafat's ruling Fatah movement resigned collectively, demanding greater democracy and an end to all corruption. "
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...146054,00.html
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Of course the Palestinians get aid, but just not nearly on the scale that the Israelis get aid, nor the same type of aid the Israelis get. If the Palestinians get so much aid, where is it all going? Their people are poor and they dont have a military.

    If you can not find this damn info, then please quit making lame excuses and just admit it!
    And here we have one more...

    "Meanwhile, Arafat was forced Tuesday to approve a key financial reform, after international donors threatened to withhold millions of dollars in aid unless he clamped down on the corruption rotting the PA from the top down."
    http://www.jnewswire.com/news_archiv.../040302_pa.asp
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Of course the Palestinians get aid, but just not nearly on the scale that the Israelis get aid, nor the same type of aid the Israelis get. If the Palestinians get so much aid, where is it all going? Their people are poor and they dont have a military.

    If you can not find this damn info, then please quit making lame excuses and just admit it!
    Ok, this one is Jewish, so I do not suspect you of trusting it. But you can of course cross check the spurces if you feel it necessary.

    http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/9...congress.shtml
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Ok, this one is Jewish, so I do not suspect you of trusting it. But you can of course cross check the spurces if you feel it necessary.

    http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/9...congress.shtml
    Ok, here we have an Arab one (to balance the Jewish I posted previously).

    "In recent months, Palestinian Authority (PA) President Yasser Arafat's government has been hit by a series of reports about misuse of foreign aid funds. Some $326 million of the PA's $800 million annual budget was squandered through corruption and mismanagement."
    http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Dail...997091807.html

    Is that enough now? Or are all these sources merely pro-Israeli propaganda?
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    Hurrah!

    Although it doesnt back up your point particuarily well, its a start. I dont see any comparisons to the sheer amount recieved by the Israelis in military aid.

    I dont doubt that there is corruption in the ranks of the PA, nor do I doubt that there is corruption in the ranks of the Israeli government (if I remember rightly, theres a scandal running at the moment which threatens Sherons presidency). However, one common theme running through all this is that there is an element of shame in giving the Palestinians aid. Anyway, I'm sure Western governments really arent so stupid as to just give Arafat money for him to do what he likes with it!!
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Anyway, I'm sure Western governments really arent so stupid as to just give Arafat money for him to do what he likes with it!!
    Youd be surprised. There was just a scandal in sweden since Sweden has donated several million swedish crowns to a palestinian governmental institution which has worked effectively as a propaganda channel for the last years. I hope you understand that it is difficult for me to post a link as most people here are not very fluent in Swedish.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Hurrah!

    Although it doesnt back up your point particuarily well, its a start. I dont see any comparisons to the sheer amount recieved by the Israelis in military aid.
    Any sources? CAn you please tell me how much Israel has received from Europe? How much has Arafat received from Europe? Look, I am not denying that the US is pro-Israel, but that is rather irrelevant to the topic of thsi thread. The EU is pretty biased in favour of teh palestinians, does this make Israel right?
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    (Original post by randdom)
    The UN don't just ignor the palistinian attacks but the fact of the matter is that the isreali attacks are being carried out by the government the Palistinian attacks are being carried out by a terrorist group so just as the UN wouldn't condem britain for IRA attacks it won't condem the whole of Palistine for the actions of the terrorist group. I agree that Europe may be slightly more sypathetic to the palistinians but very few if any of the European governments have actually pledged their support to the palistinians I mean in Britain our government still officially is support Isreal. The US on the other side is comepletely on the side of Isreal it supports them in everything they do even if they are killing many innocent palistinians in the process. I don't think that is right. The US havn't vetoed resolution because they are wronge they have vetoed resolutions because they support isreal in everything they do. Why right to Isreal have to be in palistine anyway? Every year they take more land and build more isreali only settlement and I don't see how that can be justified the UN condem them for a reason.
    Oh yes of course. Arafat has nothing to do with the terrorist atacks. Wake up! He encouraged it in public television during the latest intifada. During the latest Israeli military incursion the Israelis captured laods of documents with Arafats signature ordering suecide atacks and the aquirement of suecide belts. In the basement of teh PA headquarters one found 300kg of plastic explosives , artificial fertilisers, fuel oil and nitric acid. But this is all of course just Israeli propaganda. The problem is, that no matter how much Europe tries to dismiss these claims, the US and Israel still knows quiet well about arafats links with terrorism. This is why they dont go about with the political correctness you see in Europe. The reason Israel and teh US ignores Europe when they say Arafat is innocent is because they know it is ********.
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    Many people here seem to hold the view that European countries and particularly the EU are at the very least slightly more on the side of the Palestinians.

    I'm not quite sure about that.

    While surely the EU and EU-countries are less pro-Israel than the US, they are still in many cases favourably inclined towards Israel.

    For historic reasons, Germany cannot afford to criticise Israel too harshly.

    To a lesser extent, this applies to the whole of Europe.

    The UK are an exception here, because their relationship with Israel is traditionally strained. Let's not forget that the Zionist movement that brought about the very existence of the state of Israel had terrorist offspring which targeted the UK in Palestine.

    The picture in Europe as a whole is very mixed and it may be a little bit exaggerated to say that Europe is biassed towards the Palestinians.
 
 
 
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