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Sacked from Big Four (Exam Failure) What next?

Hi

I was dismissed from my big four audit graduate scheme back in May (bad failed one of my exams) after 9 months.

I'm struggling to find a job at the moment, and just wondered what other people's experiences are after leaving a big four graduate scheme before completing the ACA?

I am ideally looking to find a position in finance/accountancy and to eventually complete my ACA. I have already passed 5 exams and have 9 months experience of external audit. Should I be finding it this difficult?

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

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Reply 1
I have nothing but contempt for Big 4 firms when they do this (they did it to me too). For a bunch of firms that claim they train the very best, it's amazing how much easier it is to get sacked for failing an exam than poor performance or gross misconduct. Here's a list of things people didn't get sacked for in my office:

1) Turning up at least 15 minutes late every day for the entire training contract;

2) Regular outings to the pub at lunchtimes, turning up at an audit client's offices in the afternoon worse for wear;

3) 'Phantom' ticking and testing found to be deeply flawed or unsubstantiated under review;

4) Taking Class A drugs at a firm Christmas party;

5) Glassing a colleague, who subsequently left the firm (the partner helped move some money around to prevent a criminal conviction for that one - the guilty person is a director there now);

6) Being convicted for driving without insurance.

You could do all those things at my firm, but don't you dare fail an exam! I suspect it was because exam fails were dealt with centrally, whilst misconduct and poor performance was dealt with by the local firm, who didn't want to sack anyone for anything (not an ideal model).

As for next steps, I'd first work on passing what is presumably the last module of the CFAB in your own time. I would have thought one of the top 20 chartered accountancy firms would want to take you on but your timing is unfortunately not great. Most firms will begin sorting out training contracts for Sept 2015 in the next couple of months and spaces for 2014 will already be taken so I suspect firms will want to take you on but don't have the headcount this year. However, the good news is that some training contracts start in January, which won't be such a long wait.

When I was in your shoes, I decided audit wasn't for me anyway and went and did ICSA and worked in Fund Administration. Now I work in Compliance and I haven't looked back. However, I do acknowledge that I would probably earn more if I had the ACA and in your shoes I would say go to those top 20s and apply for their training contracts. I'm fairly confident that you will secure one, at least after passing that bad fail exam.

In the meantime, you also need to work and what you do really depends on how long you have to wait to get back on a training contract. If it's four months I would swallow your pride and do whatever you can for four months; earning is always better than being unemployed. If it's a year, I would try and find a bookkeeping or admin job.
Original post by AW1983

You could do all those things at my firm, but don't you dare fail an exam! I suspect it was because exam fails were dealt with centrally, whilst misconduct and poor performance was dealt with by the local firm, who didn't want to sack anyone for anything (not an ideal model).


Also the offences that you've listed would likely be contested and this would create a legal battle which would probably be more costly to the business than retaining the offender. In the case of an exam, there is no way there can be a legal battle - it is a very cheap and clean way to get rid of staff.
Hi Tony444.

I am currently working for the big 4 and have sadly had a few friends in the same position as you.

Don't get disheartened, there is certainly more to life than the big 4.

My friends have since gone on to work in an accountancy department in a company and internal audit.

Have you tried other top 10 firms? I think a smaller firm would be a preferable way leay of learning if I could do it all again?
Reply 4
Original post by Classical Liberal
Also the offences that you've listed would likely be contested and this would create a legal battle which would probably be more costly to the business than retaining the offender. In the case of an exam, there is no way there can be a legal battle - it is a very cheap and clean way to get rid of staff.


That's a very good point. I'd not thought of it like that before (although it's hard to argue you shouldn't be sacked for having a criminal conviction when you've lost a court case and it says in your contract that it would be considered gross misconduct!).

However, it still seems an odd practice that they would allow an otherwise good performer to be sacked for one exam fail. But that's the way they all do things, I guess it's just a numbers game in the end. Even most of those who pass won't stay.

On a related note, it's interesting how the ICAEW is slowly becoming the only chartered body to insist on a training contract in practice. ICAS is slowly publicising it's experienced practitioner route, ICAI have a defined business route and it's been possible to get ICAA in business for years. I wonder if that will change - seems a bit silly to exclude all the top grads who choose to work in industry from the qualification.
Reply 5
Original post by AW1983
That's a very good point. I'd not thought of it like that before (although it's hard to argue you shouldn't be sacked for having a criminal conviction when you've lost a court case and it says in your contract that it would be considered gross misconduct!).

However, it still seems an odd practice that they would allow an otherwise good performer to be sacked for one exam fail. But that's the way they all do things, I guess it's just a numbers game in the end. Even most of those who pass won't stay.

On a related note, it's interesting how the ICAEW is slowly becoming the only chartered body to insist on a training contract in practice. ICAS is slowly publicising it's experienced practitioner route, ICAI have a defined business route and it's been possible to get ICAA in business for years. I wonder if that will change - seems a bit silly to exclude all the top grads who choose to work in industry from the qualification.


Hi all,

That's not entirely true. You don't need to train in practice or have audit experience to become chartered with ICAEW. All sorts of organisations not in practice train for the ACA including Boots, the PGA, the National Audit Office, Barclays, HSBC and many more.

In fact as long as your employer has an IFAC qualified accountant, you can train there through the Authorised Training Principal scheme.

More infromation is available here if you need it http://www.icaew.com/en/qualifications-and-programmes/aca-evolved
Reply 6
Original post by DP_1985
Hi all,

That's not entirely true. You don't need to train in practice or have audit experience to become chartered with ICAEW. All sorts of organisations not in practice train for the ACA including Boots, the PGA, the National Audit Office, Barclays, HSBC and many more.

In fact as long as your employer has an IFAC qualified accountant, you can train there through the Authorised Training Principal scheme.

More infromation is available here if you need it http://www.icaew.com/en/qualifications-and-programmes/aca-evolved


Ah, interesting. I wasn't of this, although presumably the employer must still be an 'authorised training provider?'
Reply 7
Not necessarily, the training principal can be authorised rather than the whole organisation.
Reply 8
I was in a similar position a year ago however, I failed a resit for the professional stage. Luckily for me, I was one exam from officially being "Part Qualified" so I resat the exam and smashed it. Found a higher paid, non audit role (absolutely detested audit), ACA supported job within a week.

Should you be finding it difficult to find a job? YES! I was unemployed for 2 months before I found a firm who would continue supporting me through my studies. I suggest you resit your exam, then stick an updated CV on recruitment sites. The big4 name does genuinely help.

I know a few colleagues who have gone to smaller accounting firms so that is also worth a go. Check for vacancies/email HR for job openings.
Reply 9
Hi,

Can I ask how things worked out in the end in terms of finding employment? Big 4 can be extremely harsh when it comes to exam failure
Reply 10
Original post by dsa
Hi,

Can I ask how things worked out in the end in terms of finding employment? Big 4 can be extremely harsh when it comes to exam failure


I kept in touch with a few people who got kicked out of Deloitte for bad fails. All went on to do well in my opinion. It's not such a big deal really, just a bump in the road.
Original post by M1011
I kept in touch with a few people who got kicked out of Deloitte for bad fails. All went on to do well in my opinion. It's not such a big deal really, just a bump in the road.


Indeed. I knew someone who simply went and joined a different Big Four after getting kicked out, another person went to a mid tier firm. Both are continuing with their exams.

However you won't be able to say "first time passes" on your Linkedin profile any more.
Reply 12
Original post by snakesnake
Indeed. I knew someone who simply went and joined a different Big Four after getting kicked out, another person went to a mid tier firm. Both are continuing with their exams.

However you won't be able to say "first time passes" on your Linkedin profile any more.


Haha the amount of times I've seen people say that on their Linkedin... does it even matter really?
I don't think first time passes matter. I'm now qualified and wouldn't bother putting that on. If a future employer is interested in sure they'll ask!
Original post by Kre
Haha the amount of times I've seen people say that on their Linkedin... does it even matter really?


I have seen some quite a few ads in the Corp Fin/Equity Research realm asking for first time ACA passes on their job ads so it does happen.
I have put it on my profile, cringeworthy or not.
Reply 15
Original post by snakesnake
Indeed. I knew someone who simply went and joined a different Big Four after getting kicked out, another person went to a mid tier firm. Both are continuing with their exams.

However you won't be able to say "first time passes" on your Linkedin profile any more.


Original post by Kre
Haha the amount of times I've seen people say that on their Linkedin... does it even matter really?


In most cases, I'd say no it doesn't matter. A few jobs ask for it, but to be honest I think that's just a way of filtering out applications to over subscribed areas like ER. The vast majority don't care, and rightly so as anyone who's worked in a big 4 will tell you that exam performance and job performance bear no correlation.
I think that AW1983 has some valid points. This type of things do go on and they certainly have their favourites. If they like you they turn a blind eye to these things if they don't then you get pulled up on the smallest of things. There should be more support and time off for studying for exams without a doubt. To be sacked on these grounds is unfair and more can be done to help people to succeed in exams.
I just wish I could have warned 2 and a half years ago me not to sell my soul to the devil :tongue:
Original post by Theanonauditor
I just wish I could have warned 2 and a half years ago me not to sell my soul to the devil :tongue:



Yep. that is true. It can make you feel really down when such practices happen and are not fair. Perhaps someone should start a thread to warn prospective candidates. They go through so many tests and assessments and then end up with a soul destroying career.
I think theirs quite a lot out there. I guess its just knowing what to search for before you start that career choice. It's only getting worse too. More requirements with documentation, less hours to do it. I can't wait to escape

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