Do you overtake/tailgate people that are driving the speed limit?

I have never wanted to rep a post more than I have right now, you've hit the nail on the head bang on. PRSOM.

Exactly.

Someone thinking that they can somehow judge what is safe and reasonable for the conditions better than people who spend a very long time doing detailed tests to work it out, are just plain arrogant.
You can't possibly know that the speed you have chosen is safer than the limit. Unless you have done tests on the road itself, the braking distances, etc yourself, you are simply guessing. Guessing is not good enough, and can kill people.

Right, so if you're driving down a 60mph country road in the fog and icy conditions with poor headlights, you'd still go at 60mph because there is no possible way that your judgement of a safe speed could possibly be more accurate than these experts that made the speed limit 60?

If that is really true, you should hand in your driving licence tomorrow before you kill someone.

Personally, I might reduce my speed to something more appropriate like 30mph. How incredibly arrogant of me to think that perhaps the great omniscient experts didn't anticipate this exact situation when designating the road a 60mph limit.



They don't do detailed tests anyway, they don't do any tests whatsoever. You're extremely naive if you think they do.

What a magical coincidence it is that safe and appropriate speeds always happen to be multiples of 10.

Exactly.

Someone thinking that they can somehow judge what is safe and reasonable for the conditions better than people who spend a very long time doing detailed tests to work it out, are just plain arrogant.
You can't possibly know that the speed you have chosen is safer than the limit. Unless you have done tests on the road itself, the braking distances, etc yourself, you are simply guessing. Guessing is not good enough, and can kill people.

Tests that were done in what,. 1750? Cars back when speed limits were introduced were VASTLY different from what they are now. How many people do you know who drive a Ford Anglia?

Most decent modern cars brake in less than HALF the stopping distance of those mentioned in the highway code. A lot of cars do it in a third. Same story for the fatality rates etc. They are vastly different these days from the published rates.

Speed limits can change. It's not a case of once they're set they're set for good. In fact, two different roads on my way to work have both been lowered from 40mph to 30mph (Although I don't really see why, it's not a built up area). Whether anyone likes it or not, it's the law. And if you're caught going over the speed limit then you deserve the penalty that comes with that.

I'm not arguing whether it's 'the law' or whether I speed and collect speeding tickets. 'The law' isn't a good argument in debate about road safety or 'right' though, unless perhaps your government is IS, in which case you may get beheaded for dissenting. The law on homosexuality in several countries mentions executions...

Motorway speed limits haven't changed for eons. Stuff like snake pass/a-roads obviously change in response to accident rates. Just because it's 'the law' doesn't mean 'you deserve it' either. I'd far rather somebody got a penalty for tailgating or driving with minimum tire tread than for doing 85 on the M6.

Thanks for the quote by the way; totally wasn't aware of that.

I don't know why you've mentioned IS. Either way, regarding the bold part, I think it is 100% justified. If you willingly travel above the designated speed limit, get caught and are subsequently punished, then you can't really argue against it. "Well I think the speed limit is wrong" wouldn't hold up very well in court. But this is stumbling off-topic from the thread now, I've said my bit and whilst I may not agree with your views, I respect your right to voice them

Tests that were done in what,. 1750? Cars back when speed limits were introduced were VASTLY different from what they are now. How many people do you know who drive a Ford Anglia?

Most decent modern cars brake in less than HALF the stopping distance of those mentioned in the highway code. A lot of cars do it in a third. Same story for the fatality rates etc. They are vastly different these days from the published rates.

60mph is a maximum, not a guideline for all conditions. The maximum speed you can do in the best conditions.
You slow to go around corners, and you slow if conditions change for the worse.

That really isn't the same as saying you have guessed that actually, its safe to drive in a residential area at 50mph instead of the max 30. (for example).

You think no tests have been done to determine which speeds are safest on certain types of roads and in particular surroundings? A lot of tests have been done.

Anyone that thinks their guess is better than expert opinions is just plain wrong.

"expert opinions"

Who are these experts? There are no such experts. The speed limits are set according to a simple formula devised in the 1960s. There are no trials, in fact very little thought goes into setting speed limits whatsoever. 99% of roads still have the same speed limit as they had 50 years ago, despite radical changes in technology and demographics.

And for this very reason, the maximum safe speed for a road almost never coincides with the speed limit. Anyone out there in the conditions could make a far more accurate assessment than the limit predicted by the simplistic and inflexible formula 50 years ago. It would be absolutely incredible if this were anything but the case.

Yet again, you have not answered my actual point at all.
I made it quite clear that while you may be able to show that the set speed limits are wrong (which you haven't done, but that doesn't matter), you can't prove to me that your guess as a driver is the right speed. Guessing when you arrive on a road is even worse than using their "formula", because it is just a guess.
Guessing is just not good enough.

But, as I've said. We may as well end the conversation here rather than going around in circles. Have a good day.

OP: CONGRATs on passing and all the best for future driving. I drive with a baby on board and daily have a car up my arse (i do bang on the speed limit); i will see people flash their lights / give w*nker signs to get me to hurry up. I think it is disgusting, just the other day the road split and the chap behind me came past, i pointed to the baby and he told me to f off and gave me a middle finger. This is just the tip of the iceberg, just stick to your guns !!! Good luck

Its not a guess, its an informed assessment based on the conditions.

All I have to show is that I have more information at my disposal to make an accurate assessment than the bureaucrat in an office in whitehall setting the speed limit 50 years ago.

Which is not exactly hard to do, unless that person was the greatest clairvoyant known to mankind.


The Great Nostrodamus predicts that it will rain on the A34 on tuesday the 10th August and at 11pm there will be a vauxhall astra with good tyres making its way down this road, the safest maximum speed limit for which will be 64.3mph.


AMAZING

Unless you are making very informed calculations for every road you use, then you are guessing. Which isn't good enough.
However, I've stated twice now that I'd like to leave the conversation where it is. So let's do that.

There is no "Good enough", there is either a better assessment than the bloke 50 years ago in an office 200 miles away, or worse.

Clearly, it is a better assessment because you have more information at your disposal.

I disagree, as you've provided zero proof. But as we're just going in circles, let's end the conversation here.
(I'm finding it hard to believe that I'm having to say that for a 4th time. I won't be replying any more, because going around in circles is extremely boring).

What proof do you want? I've offered a clear and coherent explanation, and no-one has attempted to refute it.


You realise you don't have to say you're not going to reply, just don't reply if you don't want to say anything.