AMD losing their edge?

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Jammy Duel
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#1
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So, today Intel showed off what DX12 can do (among other articles about it:http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/14/in...nce-advantage/) and all I can think is "what does this mean for mantle?". So when mantle launched claims were made of improvements of up to 45% (which, as we know, was a load of rubbish in the real world) and some claimed that this, along with their lower pricing, game them an edge over Nvidia. Well, given how few games support Mantle that seems a bit questionable. However, given how impressive DX12 was demonstrated to be do people think that AMD will give up on mantle?

While I doubt the improvements shown will actually come out in the real world (of gaming) I would still expect them to give significant improvements (including over mantle). For people using integrated graphics, of course, it's significant and for those with dedicated hardware it should still give a nice boost. As the article says, 70% improvements in FPS on that demo when DX12 is activated with no increase in power consumption, alternatively, less than half as much power used to get the same FPS.

Over the past year or so, according to the steam hardware/software survey, Intel has been eating into AMDs part of the GPU market, AMD being below 30% as of the July survey (with Nvidia being over 50%). When you combine DX12, the lower power usage of Maxwell (making Nvidia even more power efficient compared to AMD than they already are) and the introduction of Gsync for the higher end of the market with ActiveSync still several years away (by which time Gsync should be affordable while ActiveSync will likely still be quite expensive) what impact will there be on AMD GPU (and to a lesser extent CPU) sales over the next generation or two of PC hardware?

And while DX12 may only be available to Windows 8.1 and above, we already see 18.61% of users using 8.1 (and a further 8.65% who are, for some reason, still on 8, and an additional 0.96% using 32-bit versions of 8(.1)) and that figure is rising rather rapidly. And we can, obviously, expect another significant increase in 8.1+ users when windows 9 comes along and, hopefully, removes the stigma of windows 8 (by giving it a new name).

p.s. Before anybody says that nobody will actually get 70% improvements when it actually launches, I'm aware.
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(Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
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I recall you the other day saying about Mantle means AMD>Nvidia, and wonder what your thoughts are on the DX12 showing.
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Chicken Bacon
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
So, today Intel showed off what DX12 can do (among other articles about it:http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/14/in...nce-advantage/) and all I can think is "what does this mean for mantle?". So when mantle launched claims were made of improvements of up to 45% (which, as we know, was a load of rubbish in the real world) and some claimed that this, along with their lower pricing, game them an edge over Nvidia. Well, given how few games support Mantle that seems a bit questionable. However, given how impressive DX12 was demonstrated to be do people think that AMD will give up on mantle?

While I doubt the improvements shown will actually come out in the real world (of gaming) I would still expect them to give significant improvements (including over mantle). For people using integrated graphics, of course, it's significant and for those with dedicated hardware it should still give a nice boost. As the article says, 70% improvements in FPS on that demo when DX12 is activated with no increase in power consumption, alternatively, less than half as much power used to get the same FPS.

Over the past year or so, according to the steam hardware/software survey, Intel has been eating into AMDs part of the GPU market, AMD being below 30% as of the July survey (with Nvidia being over 50%). When you combine DX12, the lower power usage of Maxwell (making Nvidia even more power efficient compared to AMD than they already are) and the introduction of Gsync for the higher end of the market with ActiveSync still several years away (by which time Gsync should be affordable while ActiveSync will likely still be quite expensive) what impact will there be on AMD GPU (and to a lesser extent CPU) sales over the next generation or two of PC hardware?

And while DX12 may only be available to Windows 8.1 and above, we already see 18.61% of users using 8.1 (and a further 8.65% who are, for some reason, still on 8, and an additional 0.96% using 32-bit versions of 8(.1)) and that figure is rising rather rapidly. And we can, obviously, expect another significant increase in 8.1+ users when windows 9 comes along and, hopefully, removes the stigma of windows 8 (by giving it a new name).

p.s. Before anybody says that nobody will actually get 70% improvements when it actually launches, I'm aware.
p.p.s.
Spoiler:
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I recall you the other day saying about Mantle means AMD>Nvidia, and wonder what your thoughts are on the DX12 showing.
Interesting article. My take on this is DX12 will obviously be a huge hit. However, the way I see things, AMD will definitely not give up on Mantle, especially since it's relatively new anyway.

Who's to know which will be better ? We have to wait and see what AMD has to offer, if any.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
Interesting article. My take on this is DX12 will obviously be a huge hit. However, the way I see things, AMD will definitely not give up on Mantle, especially since it's relatively new anyway.

Who's to know which will be better ? We have to wait and see what AMD has to offer, if any.
They will definately hold on for a while since ~50% of people currently use windows 7, so won't have DX12, but that figure is declining, and I see it declining much faster when Windows 9 comes along since people won't necessarily keep holding onto 7 to avoid 8.
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mikeyd85
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When did AMD have the edge? They run hotter and slower than Intel in the CPU world and hotter and slower than nVidia in most of the gaming world. This has been the case for a few years now, no?
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by mikeyd85)
When did AMD have the edge? They run hotter and slower than Intel in the CPU world and hotter and slower than nVidia in most of the gaming world. This has been the case for a few years now, no?
Well, the little bit of an edge mantle would give them if it was more widespread in its use. It was enough to close the gap to nvidia's equivalent models.
Still no doubt that nvidia is generally better, especially if you have the budget for it. But given how far behind it appears to be lagging behind overall, how small will their shares be in the steam hardware survey a year or two down the line?
Currently stable in cpu at about 25% share, but on GPUs they've been dropping steadily at about .15% per month since the start of last year (mostly to intel though, so I suppose that's losing out on the laptop market really)

Not that it was really in any doubt, given they seem to be leading on the technical development side, but definitely sticking with nvidia for the foreseeable future. Not sure about AMD's CPU/APU plans either, I don't see them really helping. I just hope they survive so as to keep prices down, after all Jen-Shun said that they could easily charge more, and no doubt they would if they got an effective monopoly on the dedicated GPU market.

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democracyforum
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
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Yes, AMD are generally for people on a budget.

Also, new Nvidia cards will run 50% cooler than AMD.

Even if AMD offered a 100% performance boost over nvidia, I would still choose nvidia, because AMD cards are hot and loud.
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(Original post by democracyforum)
Yes, AMD are generally for people on a budget.

Also, new Nvidia cards will run 50% cooler than AMD.

Even if AMD offered a 100% performance boost over nvidia, I would still choose nvidia, because AMD cards are hot and loud.
"50% cooler" :facepalm:
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by democracyforum)
Yes, AMD are generally for people on a budget.

Also, new Nvidia cards will run 50% cooler than AMD.

Even if AMD offered a 100% performance boost over nvidia, I would still choose nvidia, because AMD cards are hot and loud.
Since when did Nvidia cards run at -100C? I didn't know the new cards would be shipping with sub-zero cooling as standard.
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