Should Brits be given a devolution max option on Europe? Watch

perfectsymbology
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Instead of full withdrawal it would allow Britain to make its own laws while staying within the EU?
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thesabbath
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The two choices are to be subsumed slowly and painfully into a federal Europe with no democratic mandate, or to leave. Anyone who claims there is a third way, as say David Cameron does with his fantasy of a renegotiation, is not being honest.

Devolution max would just be a free trade agreement.
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Miss Maddie
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If such an option existsted and was possible I don't see why not? It would be a free trade agreement with the ability to do what we want. As it wouldn't include leaving the EU Britain would still be at the negotiating table and still have MEP's to 'vote' on laws. Surely devolution max satisfies everyone from Nick Clegg to Nigel Farage. It leaves Britain to manage itself but still gives access to the market and apparently creates 3m jobs.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by perfectsymbology)
Instead of full withdrawal it would allow Britain to make its own laws while staying within the EU?
We already have the ability to make our own laws.
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Miss Maddie
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
We already have the ability to make our own laws.
Make but not apply maybe. Britain can't now choose to legalise the manufacturing of filament light bulbs since the EU has banned it.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by perfectsymbology)
Instead of full withdrawal it would allow Britain to make its own laws while staying within the EU?
On

unwanted windmills and nonsense green technology
immigration
deporting who we want to wherever we want
growing what we want
producing what we want
trading with whoever we like
nonsensical human rights


yes, we should decide these things ourselves

Our ancestors gave civilisation and law and order to half the world . i think we can run our own small country
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by democracyforum)
On

unwanted windmills and nonsense green technology
immigration
deporting who we want to wherever we want
growing what we want
producing what we want
trading with whoever we like
nonsensical human rights


yes, we should decide these things ourselves

Our ancestors gave civilisation and law and order to half the world . i think we can run our own small country
May you please source each of those 'EU laws'?
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democracyforum
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
May you please source each of those 'EU laws'?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_directives
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RF_PineMarten
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(Original post by democracyforum)
On

unwanted windmills and nonsense green technology
immigration
deporting who we want to wherever we want
growing what we want
producing what we want
trading with whoever we like
nonsensical human rights


yes, we should decide these things ourselves

Our ancestors gave civilisation and law and order to half the world . i think we can run our own small country
Green technology to reduce impact on the environment is extremely important and an area which Britain could be a world leader in. It is not "nonsense".

Polls show more people prefer renewable technology to fracking. So I'd hardly call it "unwanted".
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Maker
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(Original post by democracyforum)
On

unwanted windmills and nonsense green technology
immigration
deporting who we want to wherever we want
growing what we want
producing what we want
trading with whoever we like
nonsensical human rights


yes, we should decide these things ourselves

Our ancestors gave civilisation and law and order to half the world . i think we can run our own small country
Britain did not "give civilisation and law to half the world" what a travesty of history. Britain went to countries like India and took land and resources by force, bribery and coercion. It ruled the natives without their consent and often treated them as second class citizens in their own countries.

I have often though those people who hate Europe it imposed its will on Britain even though Britain could leave the EU at anytime it liked were also the ones who harked back to the British Empire where Britain imposed its will on others without consent were hypocrites..
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Maker)
Britain did not "give civilisation and law to half the world" what a travesty of history. Britain went to countries like India and took land and resources by force, bribery and coercion. It ruled the natives without their consent and often treated them as second class citizens in their own countries.

I have often though those people who hate Europe it imposed its will on Britain even though Britain could leave the EU at anytime it liked were also the ones who harked back to the British Empire where Britain imposed its will on others without consent were hypocrites..
North America, Australia, Africa, India, the Middle East, were savage and backward when colonists arrived.

Not to mention we gave Japan the education system and foundations it still uses today .
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Maker
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(Original post by democracyforum)
North America, Australia, Africa, India, the Middle East, were savage and backward when colonists arrived.

Not to mention we gave Japan the education system and foundations it still uses today .
Why don't you tell me how the Indians kick out the British after WWII because they were so pleased they treated them like a cash cow.

America also kicked out the British as did the Middle East.

You can always spin history but the truth is Britain were there to exploit the resources in those countries it invaded and occupied and treating the natives with contempt. No country ever invited Britain to take it over, it did it by force.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by democracyforum)
North America, Australia, Africa, India, the Middle East, were savage and backward when colonists arrived.
Yeah, they didn't have all those modern progressive ideas like mass slavery and genocide, they had to be taught those by the colonists.
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by democracyforum)
North America, Australia, Africa, India, the Middle East, were savage and backward when colonists arrived.

Not to mention we gave Japan the education system and foundations it still uses today .
The Indian sub continent / the Middle East had civilizations a good 3500 years before the British turned up, pull that massive head out of your arse you arrogant fool...
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ultra-musketeer
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Yeah, they didn't have all those modern progressive ideas like mass slavery and genocide, they had to be taught those by the colonists.
On the other hand, colonization was partially if not wholly responsible for providing the language, technology and institutions to places like India, whose economic development continues to be driven by these things today.

I think that something along the lines of devolution should be offered to every country in the EU. People are clearly becoming less and less interested in political integration.
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Snagprophet
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(Original post by democracyforum)
On

unwanted windmills and nonsense green technology
immigration
deporting who we want to wherever we want
growing what we want
producing what we want
trading with whoever we like
nonsensical human rights
See this is the dumbest thing to want to leave the EU for. For instance, our solar panels make about £3 of electricity for the grid every day. That's more than the daily electricity bills myself and four other housemates used a day while in our university house. Free electricity is a good thing lmao. If we don't use it it goes to the grid and we get money off our electric bill.

As for windmills, this is a windy country and so they produce loads of electricity so we don't have to rely on Russia for oil. We can be self sufficient. Also, we're putting turbines into underwater currents so they'll be turning continuously. Infinite power. Infinite electricity. How is this a bad thing? Germany get's 85% of it's energy from renewables. That means it relies 15% on importing oil or other materials.

The rest of what you say is fair enough.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by perfectsymbology)
Instead of full withdrawal it would allow Britain to make its own laws while staying within the EU?
We already have devo max essentially.

EFTA is the next step down.
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