Is it time we really started pushing atheism?

Scroll to see replies

Or are you saying that all religions provide morals? But then considering that both I (an atheist) and the majority of religious people can agree that the majority of religions are man made,

Man organised* maybe. I don't agree with the word man made in the context of religion.

Original post by The Epicurean

we can therefore assume that the moral teachings of these religions are man made? So in conclusion, man gave religion its morals and therefore man can survive without religion as he is the source of morality.

Well since you believe religion as well as morals is manmade, you should consider why man would have to fabricate a god in order for people to see certain morals and ethics as legitimate.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 21

The Epicurean

Original post by Truths

Man organised* maybe. I don't agree with the word man made in the context of religion.

So you don't believe Mormonism is man made? What about Scientology?

Original post by Truths

Well since you believe religion as well as morals is manmade, you should consider why man would have to fabricate a god in order people for people to see certain morals and ethics as legitimate.

I never explicitly said morals were man made. You stated that without religion, there would be no morality. That is to say that morals come from religion. I then stretched this point to show you that it could be argued that religions, or at least all religions that you do not follow, are man made. It can therefore me logically concluded that if morals come from religion and religion is man made, that therefore morals are man made.

I am merely showing you that when your position is pushed further it leads to you concluding that morals are man made. I however have never stated such a belief.

Reply 22

donutaud15

If you want to be Atheist then do so. But insisting your views on others just makes you as bad as those you are criticising.

If I'm insane for my religion then so be it. I don't really care about what some child thinks.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 23

Hariex

Original post by RtGOAT

P1)P2) Do you eve logic?

Please state your reasons for thinking why "all religion is crap" and why denouncing religion is going to reduce fanaticism. I am not trying to be pedantic or picky - you haven't actually given any reasons yet!

P3) Holidays, funding, Halal meat etc.

No, you said "religion", not Abrahamic religions. Please be more specific.

Things like holidays would be essential even if everyone were secular. A lot of traditions religions like Judaism use are basic qualities that can be shared amongst secular people - the Jews, for example, share a day during which they forgive those they have wronged. A lot of Jewish festivals revolve around community and family values.

There is a line about religious rights and many people have crossed it. However, there are values within those traditions which one can learn from.

P4) Very very very few people believe in Zues, Hades, Poseidon etc. these days. God/Allah should go the same way.

The Christian God is remarkably different to those gods you have mentioned. Even if religion was proven to be demonstrably false, it still serves as a unique contribution to our society. You too must be disappointed by the lack of atheistic charities. Religions like Christianity emphasise many things about us which is invaluable: it teaches that we are to "bring heaven on earth" by aiding the unaided. It teaches that everybody is equal in God's image.

Even if secularism can provide a substitute for these philosophies, it does not press them as frequently as a religion does; whilst believers are taught on a daily basis to act morally, atheists are left to their own conscience and society for their motivation to do good.

P5) See P1 & P2. If I vehemently believed in Santa you'd call me crazy.

The concept of a God and the concept of Santa are two incredibly different things. Consider God: it is an idea that has been debated by philosophers for centuries and is dealt with over logical arguments for and against. Academic contempories by the likes of Richard Swinburne and Alvin Plantinga uphold theistic arguments.

The idea of Santa, however, has no rational justification. Despite this, if you passionately believed that Santa was real and were willing to have a discussion about it, I would gently explain why I thought you were wrong in the virtues of civility and respect.

Reply 24

Truths

Original post by The Epicurean

I never explicitly said morals were man made. You stated that without religion, there would be no morality.

No that's not what I said. I said that there is no such thing as justified, legitimate morals without organised religion. A moral code is only established by a supreme being; A god.
A world of with no god is a world with no good or bad, just subjective. As atheists understand.

Reply 25

Allaboutthatbass

Original post by RtGOAT

If your cousin doesn't follow the hadiths and I would 'never even guess she's Muslim' then she's not really Muslim, she's like the many 'Christians' in this country, who aren't religious at all but due to tradition call themselves Christians. She'd lose nothing by leaving Islam.

There are no borderlines you know, you can't expect people to be 100% following something, if someone doesn't read the Bible but feels like they are Christian, they are Christian, not the same Christian as another guy but in their own way.
Just like many atheists, don't believe in any religion but do sometimes question if there is something. My mother works at a hospital and you won't believe how many dying patients 'convert' last minute.

Reply 26

reciproversexclu

Original post by RtGOAT

Well how about denouncing all religions? Religion has no place in a modern progressive society.

The USSR, China, France from 1789 to 1799 and probably others, tried to snuff out religion and failed. The idea of 'martyrs' on its own might be enough to defeat attempts.

Original post by tengentoppa

There's no need to push atheism or to actively attack religion. What we should do is remove any state involvement in religion. We should ban faith schools, remove religious figures from the HOL, make it very difficult to get planning permission for houses of worship, remove tax breaks....

That is the way to go. Stop the institutionalised indoctrination and let the parents of each of their own child/ren that they want indoctrinated be indoctrinated by them. That would be very interesting. These parents might have to really think about what they are forcing on their children for possibly the first time in their lives.

Reply 27

TheAnusFiles

Original post by missfats

Radical Atheism has caused more atrocities then extremism in islam.

All that has to be said. :yes:

Posted from TSR Mobile

No it hasn't?

Reply 28

TheAnusFiles

Original post by Truths

Why are subjective morals bad? Should we really follow the 'morals' that religion taught us 1000 years ago? Subjective morals mean that we can progress and better society.

The so called 'justified, legitimate morals' of religion teach us among other things that I can rape any women I own and that slavery is not bad in all circumstances.

Reply 29

Syngrone

Original post by RtGOAT

With all these 'extremist' muslims going over to Iraq/Syria no one seems to know what to do to prevent radicalisation.

Well how about denouncing all religions? I mean they're all a bunch of crap anyway. Religion has no place in a modern progressive society. The amount of things people get away with because of religion is ludicrous. This is the 21st century for gods sake (I know). If anyone above the age of 5 still vehemently believes in these fairytales they should be institutionalised.

They should be taught in the same way Greek mythology is taught.

I have posted this here and not in the religion forum because this is a serious thought and not a troll. Though I don't suppose it'll be long before this thread is deleted by the apologist mods.

You must believe that we were evolved from bacteria right?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 30

Syngrone

Atheism is a *******ated ideology, where the silly athiests belive something can be made from nothing.

DAT LOGIC!

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 31

missfats

Original post by Syngrone

Atheism is a *******ated ideology, where the silly athiests belive something can be made from nothing.

DAT LOGIC!

Posted from TSR Mobile

that "nothing" is actually something.

:wink:

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 32

TheAnusFiles

Original post by Syngrone

Atheism is a *******ated ideology, where the silly athiests belive something can be made from nothing.

DAT LOGIC!

Posted from TSR Mobile

They believe that the origin of life started trillions of years ago and slowly developed into what we see today.

Theists believe that a god(s) suddenly had an idea to create the earth. He took six whole days to do so (despite being omnipotent) and on the 7th day he took a break because, you know, God gets tired....

Atheist don't know why or how the bang happened but are open to admit that, and are finding more information every year.

Theists are happy that they have the answers and that any plotholes are God's will

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 33

innocent man

The only scientifically defensible position on the 'God' question is agnosticism, since it's pretty obvious that a God capable of creating the universe would also be capable of hiding his design input from his creations (no gender bias implied implied by the use of 'his' or slight by the non-capitalization of 'h' - if there is a God I suppose he's bigger than that).

Dawkins stopped being a scientist when his 'extended phenotype' work started being taken seriously by people who were being 'extended phenotyped' and resented it. Put into google: site:majorityrights.com "extended phenotype"

Reply 34

Truths

Original post by TheAnusFiles

And atheism opposes horrible things you've listed? I don't like most religions but I would still say religion did contribute to the progress of society. The problem with a society's morals ran on subjectivity is that there would be a lot more conflict and no legitimate way of solving it without a supreme moral code (given by a God figure". We've already seen in history that majority rules is not really the best answer.

Reply 35

anosmianAcrimony

Original post by missfats

Radical Atheism has caused more atrocities then extremism in islam.

All that has to be said. :yes:

Posted from TSR Mobile

How do you figure that? Indeed, how do you even suppose to start totting up the atrocities caused by a religion over all the centuries of its existence?

Reply 36

ThatPerson

Original post by missfats

Radical Atheism has caused more atrocities then extremism in islam.

All that has to be said. :yes:

Posted from TSR Mobile

I think I've seen it all now...

Reply 37

missfats

Original post by ThatPerson

I think I've seen it all now...

Original post by anosmianAcrimony

How do you figure that? Indeed, how do you even suppose to start totting up the atrocities caused by a religion over all the centuries of its existence?

As I said earlier, I will write a long post explaining my position in a few days, when I get a laptop. :wink:

mobile and tsr ain't a nice combination.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 38

anosmianAcrimony

Original post by Syngrone

You must believe that we were evolved from bacteria right?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Actually, no - it seems to be more likely that bacteria and eukaryotes such as ourselves evolved from a common ancestor.

Reply 39

TheAnusFiles

Original post by Truths

Atheism is the lack of a belief in God/gods. Nothing more. It doesn't oppose or support anything.

Secular humanism which encompasses many atheists opposes rape and slavery as the absolute antithesis of what it stands for.

Religion did contribute to our progress, but has become largely redundant since. Religion is like a blind man who lead us through the darkness, but is no longer useful now that we can see the light.

The fact is that there are so many different religions and sects with their own supreme moral code is that you are never going to have supreme moral code. And then who decides what the moro code is anyway? Unless God is for the first time in human history make an appearance to rectify every single moral issue from gays to stem cells, then I don't think your point stands.