The Student Room Group

The spread of Islam and immigration

Following the murder of Foley by an British Muslim, it is now legitimate to ask, why when Islam spreads to a new area does conflict inevitably ensure? Wherever Islam has spread in the world, so too does terrorism and conflict, whether this is Britain, France, Spain, Russia, Thailand, China, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, America. It seems to me that Islam has a problem with co-existence; it has both a tremendous superiority complex, and a highly developed sense of grievance and victimhood. For some reason, no matter how welcoming a country, a portion of the Muslim population will always turn against the hosts who so kindly welcomed them. Why? Making snide remarks and accusations of Islamophobia is not good enough anymore. And it's not a cultural issue or just coincidence, other immigrant groups don't cause these problems and become terrorists. Islam needs to have a long and hard look at itself, and come out of the denial that terrorism is always someone else's fault and Islam is always a victim

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Reply 1
I would also add, it is simply not good enough for people to say, "Well, most Muslims are not extremists". Maybe not per se. but most Muslims still have very strong beliefs in their own superiority and in the inferiority of other faiths and people, and holding such a mindset makes it very easy to step from that into a mindset of extremism. Mainstream "moderate" Islam is a belief system that easily lends itself to extremism if taken to its logical conclusion
Reply 2
When Islam spreads to a new area conflict ensues?

In the last ten years we have invaded and destroyed two entire Muslim countries. We killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. In return we had one bus blown up seven years ago.

Are you serious? Just because thousands of children rotting away from radioactive material induced cancers in some Iraqi orphanage doesn't have the visual impact of a beheading on youtube doesn't mean that we and the US aren't the bad guys in the world.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 3
Original post by young_guns
I would also add, it is simply not good enough for people to say, "Well, most Muslims are not extremists". Maybe not per se. but most Muslims still have very strong beliefs in their own superiority and in the inferiority of other faiths and people, and holding such a mindset makes it very easy to step from that into a mindset of extremism. Mainstream "moderate" Islam is a belief system that easily lends itself to extremism if taken to its logical conclusion


All of those stupid dog**** religions believe they are special, chosen people. That is kind of the point.
Reply 4
Original post by Andy Cr
When Islam spreads to a new area conflict ensues? Do you deny it? Are you denying that pretty much wherever Islam is in the world, there is terrorism and unrest, whether in Europe, whether in Thailand or Philippines, or Australia, or Russia, or New Zealand. What other religious gorup is associated with this much terrorism? Have the Sikhs, or the Hindus, or the Buddhists, engaged in this much terrorism, on such a widespread geographical scale?
In the last ten years we
Pure whataboutery. Why are you trying to avoid the subject?
Reply 5
Original post by Andy Cr
All of those stupid dog**** religions believe they are special, chosen people. That is kind of the point.
And yet, only Islam seems to have problems *everywhere* it goes. Why is that? Why don't we see Hindu terrorists suicide bombing the tube? Or Sikhs setting off truck bombs in New York? Or the buddhists taking people hostage and chopping off heads? This seems to be rather particular to the Islam.
Reply 6
Original post by young_guns
Do you deny it? Are you denying that pretty much wherever Islam is in the world, there is terrorism and unrest, whether in Europe, whether in Thailand or Philippines, or Australia, or Russia, or New Zealand. What other religious gorup is associated with this much terrorism? Have the Sikhs, or the Hindus, or the Buddhists, engaged in this much terrorism, on such a widespread geographical scale? Pure whataboutery. Why are you trying to avoid the subject?


Christians - largest number of civilians killed by a BIG margin, largest number of nations invaded and subjugated, largest armed forces, most nuclear weapons owned, I could continue.

Remember when all those Arab armies invaded England during the crusades? Or when Saddam Hussein levelled London with laser guided cruise missiles? Me neither.

If terrorism means killing innocent people for political ends then George Bush Jnr. and Tony Blair (both committed Christians) are the biggest terrorists on the planet.
Reply 7
Original post by Andy Cr
Just because thousands of children rotting away from radioactive material induced cancers in some Iraqi orphanage doesn't have the visual impact of a beheading on youtube
Again, you're trying to change the subject. Why can't you bring yourself to deal with that issue? And how does US depleted uranium force Muslims in Northern Iraq to wipe out an entire culture (Yezidis)?
doesn't mean that we and the US aren't the bad guys in the world
Bad guys? And no, the US aren't the "bad guys" if one must use such a juvenile term. The US has been the backbone of a stable international order and economic system since 1945 that has brought unprecedented peace between great powers, the likes of which we have never seen in human history. They make many foreign policy and military decisions I don't agree with, but fundamentally, the reason you can sit there in comfort and freedom tapping away on your computer is because the US played guarantor for the security of Western Europe for 50 years during the Cold War.
Reply 8
Original post by young_guns
And yet, only Islam seems to have problems *everywhere* it goes. Why is that? Why don't we see Hindu terrorists suicide bombing the tube? Or Sikhs setting off truck bombs in New York? Or the buddhists taking people hostage and chopping off heads? This seems to be rather particular to the Islam.


Are you claiming that the majority of terrorist attacks committed on the US or UK in the last 25 years were committed by Muslims?
Reply 9
Original post by Andy Cr
Christians How many Christian terrorist organisations are there in the world? How many countries ruled by a Christian version of the Taliban? How many gay men are executed by Christian regimes?
Or when Saddam Hussein levelled London with laser guided cruise missiles?
Nope, but I do remember when Saddam Hussein invaded Iran, causing an 8 year war that lead to a million deaths. Which Western leader caused a million deaths?
Reply 10
I think most people bar Muslims and wide-eyed leftists concede that Islam is an aggressive, expansionist, totalitarian 'religion' that seeks to dominate the world.

There's more than enough evidence for this.

As you say, there are very few areas of the world where Muslims live completely peacefully with their neighbours.
Reply 11
Original post by Andy Cr
Are you claiming that the majority of terrorist attacks committed on the US
The vast majority of deaths caused by terrorism in the last 25 years in the United States was caused by Islamic terrorists. Do you deny that? Don't try to change the subject, yes or no
or UK in the last 25 years were committed by Muslims?
The vast majority of civilian deaths on the UK mainland in terrorist incidents was caused by Muslim terrorists. And in fact, ALL the deaths caused by terrorism on the UK mainland in the last 10 years were caused by Muslim terrorists. Do you deny that? Yes or no, don't try to change the subject
Original post by Andy Cr
If terrorism means killing innocent people for political ends then George Bush Jnr. and Tony Blair (both committed Christians) are the biggest terrorists on the planet.


I cannot ****ing stand when people try to portray these two as terrorists, they were leaders and they had to make decisions, it may have been a ****ty and rotten decision to go into Iraq in hindsight, but America and the UK would have been chided otherwise for not helping the Kurds that Saddam was gassing or w/e. (Disregarding all of the blood for oil stuff ofc)

It's a loss loss situation, grow up and stop being so black and white. Syrian civil war has been the same grey area but Obama made the opposite choice; now people are saying "why didn't we intervene before ISIS rose!!!".
Reply 13
Original post by young_guns
Again, you're trying to change the subject. Why can't you bring yourself to deal with that issue? And how does US depleted uranium force Muslims in Northern Iraq to wipe out an entire culture (Yezidis)? Bad guys? And no, the US aren't the "bad guys" if one must use such a juvenile term. The US has been the backbone of a stable international order and economic system since 1945 that has brought unprecedented peace between great powers, the likes of which we have never seen in human history. They make many foreign policy and military decisions I don't agree with, but fundamentally, the reason you can sit there in comfort and freedom tapping away on your computer is because the US played guarantor for the security of Western Europe for 50 years during the Cold War.


Tell that to the people in the nations that are the losers in the neoliberal economic game the US (with willing British assistance) has been playing over the planet since WW2. The 'stable economic system' you so admire has many more of them than winners.

I would say the problems in Iraq, in fact the rise of militant Islam generally, are a direct result of the devastation wrought on their country TWICE in the last couple of decades. Why aren't Indonesian Muslims (the largest population on Earth) beheading Americans? Defeat in the First World War led to the rise of the nazi regime and it's subsequent horrors - Do you believe that there is something intrinsically wrong with the German people, or that war and the destruction of a nation can cause a population to do terrible things?
Reply 14
Original post by ThatNorthernLad
I cannot ****ing stand when people try to portray these two as terrorists, they were leaders and they had to make decisions
Agreed. And it's exceptionally childish to whine "Bush and Blair, terrorists!". The UK and the US are not dictatorships, to go to war you need a large proportion of public opinion behind you, you need the military apparatus to be on board (or at least not obstruct you), you need your cabinet and the machinery of the civil service and intelligence bureaucracy. The decision to go to war in Iraq was the culmination of many, many people in government, civil service, intelligence and military deciding it was the right thing. But of course, it's easier for those of limited intellects to blame a single person, it's far easier for their brain to process and then demonise
Reply 15
Original post by Andy Cr
Tell that to the people in the nations that are the losers in the neoliberal economic game the US (with willing British assistance) has been playing over the planet since WW2. The 'stable economic system' you so admire has many more of them than winners.
Only someone who is incredibly ignorant of history and economics could make such a fatuous claim. Living standards in 2014 are *astounding* compared to 1945, even people in the underclass live lives that are comfortable compared to the underclass of 1945. And around the world, living standards have risen incredibly, it's clear you simply don't understand how much poorer the world was back then.
the rise of militant Islam generally, are a direct result of the devastation wrought on their country TWICE in the last couple of decades
Yep, that totally explains Islamic militancy in Syria. It's always the West's fault.
Why aren't Indonesian Muslims (the largest population on Earth) beheading Americans?
Oh dear, didn't you know? There have been massive terrorist attacks in Indonesia, in fact the Bali bombings in 2002 killed 88 Australians, 28 Indonesians, 27 Brits and 7 Americans. And you're saying there's no Islamic extremism there? The more you write, the more you are embarassing yourself Defeat in the First World War led to the rise of the nazi regime and it's subsequent horrors - Do you believe that there is something intrinsically wrong with the German people, or that war and the destruction of a nation can cause a population to do terrible things?
Reply 16
Original post by young_guns
The vast majority of deaths caused by terrorism in the last 25 years in the United States was caused by Islamic terrorists. Do you deny that? Don't try to change the subject, yes or no The vast majority of civilian deaths on the UK mainland in terrorist incidents was caused by Muslim terrorists. And in fact, ALL the deaths caused by terrorism on the UK mainland in the last 10 years were caused by Muslim terrorists. Do you deny that? Yes or no, don't try to change the subject


You are correct, but I didn't ask you about deaths, just the number of terrorist attacks. Do you believe that the Irish Catholics were inherently evil during the 80's and then got better, or they had a genuine political grievance they were unable to resolve by conventional force that has since been peacefully resolved?
Reply 17
Original post by Andy Cr
You are correct, but I didn't ask you about deaths, just the number of terrorist attacks. Of course you did, because asking about deaths wouldn't give you the answer you want. And 51 letter bombs that kill no-one is worse than 1 bomb that kills 50 people, obviously. Islamic terrorism is the most deadly terrorism in the UK.
Do you believe that the Irish Catholics were inherently evil during the 80's
If there were problems with terrorism in every Catholic country, then I certainly might start to ask questions. The topic seems to have confused you, but it seems pretty simple to me; wherever Islam goes, you see terrorism. Could you say the same for Catholicism? No. But of course, you are desperate to avoid this topic and deflect attention from Islamic terrorism so I think we have to leave our discussion there
Reply 18
Original post by young_guns
The topic seems to have confused you, but it seems pretty simple to me; wherever Islam goes, you see terrorism. Could you say the same for Catholicism? No. But of course, you are desperate to avoid this topic and deflect attention from Islamic terrorism so I think we have to leave our discussion there


Thank you for your time, I enjoyed this discussion. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of my point, as far as I am concerned killing civilians for political gain is terrorism, pure and simple. It doesn't necessarily mean some bearded guy with a bomb on a bus, it could be an RAF pilot in a stealth bomber. The mindset is the same as far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter if they wear a nice uniform. That being the case Christians commit more terrorist attacks globally than Muslims.

I'm NOT saying Muslims are all nice and peace loving.
We need to establish a white only country. White government, white television, white radio, white schools. If you disagree you're racist against white people. How do you like them apples?

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