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Why is chemistry so undersuscribed?

I was just looking at the figures at the back of the prospectus for application to offers ratios for each college, and chemistry seems to be so undersuscribed? For example St peters is 0.8, and st hildas 0.5!!!!! Correct me if im wrong but that means 2 people were given offers for each ONE person that applied. :eek:

Just wondering how they come up with these figures, and are they reliable and worth giving a look in?

Reply 1

MatthewH

3

sal33m

Correct me if im wrong but that means 2 people were given offers for each ONE person that applied. :eek:

Well, since you ask... it does mean that in a sense. For every person who applied to St Hildas, two offers were made. Because St Hilda's farms in hundreds of applicants for interview as overflow from other colleges, evening out the total application/offer ratio to 3/2 accross the university.

Reply 2

shinyhappy

14

Chemistry is fairly undersubscribed at most universities. St Hildas has a fair few figures that suggest more offers were made than there were applicants (MatthewH has explained that though) More relevant figures are the success rates per applicant per subject (which are on TSR somewhere) they're a lot more telling - and in fact show that St Hildas has some of the lowest % of successful applicants, highlighting the fact that they take a lot of people who applied to other colleges, who were good enough, but for whom there were not enough spaces at that particular college.

Reply 3

WokSz

17

It's kind of obvious no one wants to study Chemistry - I mean it's Chemistry :P

Reply 4

sal33m

OP

1

WokSz

It's kind of obvious no one wants to study Chemistry - I mean it's Chemistry :P

Haha, chemistry is by far the best of all the sciences! I'd rather know how to make you poo in your pants uncontrollably(reference to 51st) than solve some weird irrelevant maths theorem. I mean comon! Whats more useful.

But seriously, do these figures mean that its 'easier' to get in for chemistry or does oxford just take in fewer applicants if compertition is not so great?

Reply 5

sjuthani

6

sal33m

But seriously, do these figures mean that its 'easier' to get in for chemistry or does oxford just take in fewer applicants if compertition is not so great?

I think it just means fewer people apply for chemistry than other subjects. The figures belie the fact that chemistry and physics have the highest kick-out rates after prelims exams in the first year.

Reply 6

Waldo Dobbs

3

Oxford has the largest Chemistry department in western Europe. In order to be able to bear the thought of four years of Chemistry, you have to enjoy three fairly different areas. Physical is interesting, but the others? Madness.

Speaking as an ex-Oxford chemist, I'm glad I jumped that ship. The subject at my old college has a horrific drop-out rate, with people switching to subjects as far removed from it as possible. The third and fourth years I know all seem sick of the subject, which is a shame. Why study something you don't love?

Reply 7

Alan Smithee

Digby Jones put forward a good set of incentives for people who may WANT to do Chemistry, but also worry about their job prospects.

He mentioned things like lowering fees in science subjects.

Does anyone think that'd be worthwhile?

Reply 8

Athena

6

Platocrates

Digby Jones put forward a good set of incentives for people who may WANT to do Chemistry, but also worry about their job prospects.

He mentioned things like lowering fees in science subjects.

Does anyone think that'd be worthwhile?

Doesn't that only apply to international students? And I think Oxford would then make a loss of their teaching (which, coupled with the loss they make on home students) would lead to less money for the chemistry department... bit of a vicious circle really.

Incidentally, Platocrates, have you decided to apply to Oxbridge?

Reply 9

EmChem

Although on the college figures it appears chemistry is undersubscribed this year when i got my letter telling me i had an offer it said that there were about 417 applicants form 179 places, so in terms of the whole uni its definitely not undersubscribed :smile:

Reply 10

Alan Smithee

Athena

Incidentally, Platocrates, have you decided to apply to Oxbridge?

Not yet, how come?

Reply 11

Alan Smithee

Athena

Doesn't that only apply to international students? And I think Oxford would then make a loss of their teaching (which, coupled with the loss they make on home students) would lead to less money for the chemistry department... bit of a vicious circle really.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to home students.

Reply 12

RosW

Chemistry A level is a lot harder than other science A levels, it must put people off studying it at uni because they think they're less good at it

Reply 13

lymphoz

24 applicants for 4 places at hertford this year...its definitely seems to be increasing year on year

Reply 14

Athena

6

Platocrates

Not yet, how come?

Just wondered, after the spate of "Is Oxbridge instituitionally racist and whiter than a page of A4" threads :p:

You don't really have that long to decide.

Reply 15

Alan Smithee

Athena

Just wondered, after the spate of "Is Oxbridge instituitionally racist and whiter than a page of A4" threads :p:

You don't really have that long to decide.

Lol, I wasn't really trying to ascertain the racism aspect per se, I was merely trying to find out the best college to apply to.

Reply 16

sal33m

OP

1

sjuthani

I think it just means fewer people apply for chemistry than other subjects. The figures belie the fact that chemistry and physics have the highest kick-out rates after prelims exams in the first year.

what are the kick out rates for chemistry and physics?

Reply 17

Elles

17

Examiners reports for prelims are possibly the place to look for the cold hard numbers!
E.g. Chemistry prelims 2005 172 were entered, 18 failed in the June exams (1st attempt) & five failed again at resit. Prelims 2004 160 entered, 25 failed in the June exams & three at the resit.

Although it's possible some of these might have resat the year with exenuating circumstances? The two chemists I've known of who failed prelims both joined the second year of the course at another university.

Reply 18

henryt

17

Perhaps one of the reasons for the poor rates is possibly because the A-level syllabi aren't particularly inspiring, and don't really give any idea of any of the 3 branches of Chemistry (quoting my brother, ChCh Chemist!).

Reply 19

one_silly_person

5

sal33m

I was just looking at the figures at the back of the prospectus for application to offers ratios for each college, and chemistry seems to be so undersuscribed?

In my opinion it appears to be taught fairly poorly.Most chemists I knew at Oxford changed subjects after a year or two, citing frustration with the course and the teaching. Two changed to Physics, one to PPE and another to Maths. Note that none of these changed to easier subjects. Two others just vanished and are thought to have left for other universities after failing their prelim resits.

Oddly, the failure rate at chemistry prelims is around ten times the failure rate in law prelims and several times the failure rates in Physics and Maths. I have heard chemists blame the teaching and course structure for a significant part of this. Of course, another part of the reason for the high failure rate is that since Chemistry is chronically undersubscribed, they do take a lot more applicants who are borderline.

Why is chemistry so undersuscribed?

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