Fascist Le Pen in UK this Weekend.

Have you ever served in the Armed forces?

I must say that I'm surprised (and somewhat dissapointed) to hear you advocating the use of torture with such a throw-away comment.

I'm not advocating torture. I am saying that in the conflict we are speaking of torture wasn't exactly frowned upon by the French government and Mr.LePen as an officer in the French Army at that time probably wasn't doing anything that wasn't expected of him. That's all.

Cunt

How bad do things have to get before some of you will see the light? After you pass a certain point there is no return. Is it just me or does it seem like a lot of these people pissing on the BNP and LePen are prolly not what one would call true british. If you cant see a major demographic catastrophy coming then you are simply not looking at reality, or you just want whites to disappear because you yourself are a racist.

Same goes for here in the US.

really? where?

Matt looks up and down, around and around and all he can see nothing, or no one, that resembles Howards desperate cry. It simply seems to me that you are extreemly fustrated; definitly psychologicaly, shown through your inability to express yourself throughout this debat; from your choice of of words it appears as though you are sexually fustrated also, whats up mate? whats going on? ... need any help?

Aliel i dont recon his 14 i think he is probably getting close to 30 now... seems pretty desperate if you ask me.

But as it goes, i do not intend to disrupt this debate, even though it has become more like a boxing match, because i do not feel that it should stop. I think that Howard you should stop being so conceited... alseast so obviosuly and actually think about what you are saying... its just foolish mate. Maybe it would help if you tried to consider the pain that these people have been though, imagine if it was your family? I really do hope that you do take into account Aliel's views, which i must say are expressed very clearly in her posts and reflect the wonderful person that she is.

I really do hope that you do take into account Aliel's views, which i must say are expressed very clearly in her posts and reflect the wonderful person that she is.

I also feel strongly about the actions of supposed neo-Marxists in power (the extent to which they are actually Marxist, is however, debatable). I do however believe that egalitarianism is much more preferable to racism - perhaps someone could set up a poll to see what the publics opinion is on this? Anyway, what relevance this has to my above post is very obscure as it is based on the assumption that anyone who feels strongly enough against fascism to protest against it is a socialist or neo-Marxist. I suggest you drop this strange generalisation you have developed about anti-racists. Britain has come to a very depressing state when the only way you can condemn racism is if your prepared to be labelled a Marxist (which I am, but not every friend who marched with me).

Is a thought crime is a crime that has no consequences outside the mind of the individual. When that thought provokes others to participate in physical and verbal abuse of certain minorities and individuals, then it can no longer be called a 'thought crime'.

Are you against any form of protest then?? As well as any form of party political broadcasts, canvassing, leafletting or news conferences made by political parties (whether they be extremist or mainstream)?

Hitlers National Socialist won the most votes in Germany before his thrust to power. Does this legitimise the Nazi policies?

Please point me in the direction of these groups manifestos or websites. A far right group, in my opinion, is a reactionary group that strongly believes in percieved 'natural' hierachies and organic societies - generally resulting in the persecution of those beilieved not to be a natural component of such a society. It can also have strong racial elements. However, the political spectrum analysis is by no means perfect, and is simply used for convenience as you imply.

Correct. Why state the obvious?

Although you would be pretty hard pushed to find a BNP member who did not have a derogotary view of 'alien' races. If you do find one, then I advise you actually print him off a copy of some BNP press releases!

Unfortunately you did.

I'm saying that it is reasonable to expect someone that has conducted torture, to not have a shot at becoming the French leader.

I don't know about that. If you conduct torture sanctioned by the State as in LePen's case I think it would be a bit unfair for the State to bar you from politics.

How can governments enlist soldiers, send them to war, request all sorts of horrible things of them, and then kick them in the nuts for doing it? How can you do your master's bidding and then be prosecuted for it?

The question is, was this torture State sanctioned? Doesn't the fact that he wasn't procecuted by the State indicate that the State approved of his actions?

No it does not. Actions abroad were ignored NOT sanctioned. They were allowed to run wild.

I don't know about that. If you conduct torture sanctioned by the State as in LePen's case I think it would be a bit unfair for the State to bar you from politics.

How can governments enlist soldiers, send them to war, request all sorts of horrible things of them, and then kick them in the nuts for doing it? How can you do your master's bidding and then be prosecuted for it?

The question is, was this torture State sanctioned? Doesn't the fact that he wasn't procecuted by the State indicate that the State approved of his actions?

There's a difference between an amnesty and approving of the crimes committed. An amnesty just means that the (alleged) criminal will not be punished. That does not mean that in the eyes of the State his action was right or legal. In fact, an amnesty does not make any difference as far as the crime is concerned, it merely changes the way the criminal is treated. I thought you had a law degree?!

I think you're treading on thin ice to be honest. Ignoring an action that you have knowledge of and can prevent happening implies sanctioning IMO.

There is no proof that the French State knew about Le Pen's war-crimes at the time they were committed.

So, you'd disagree with Aliel then. She say's "Actions abroad were ignored NOT sanctioned. They were allowed to run wild"

Who's right? Did the French government know what was going on or not? Of course they bloody well did. Don't be so naive.

Yes, they most probably knew that some members of the armed forces were committing acts of torture. However, that does not mean they knew specifically about Le Pen committing those atrocities.
If they did not know about him specifically, they did not "ignore" specifically what he did and certainly did not sanction it.

They knew about the whole deal pal. I'm sure they didn't have a list of everyone involved but they could easily have gotten that list and prosecuted a very large number of perpetrators had they wanted to. They didn't want to because they approved of it. Period.

Yes, they could have gotten that list AFTER the event and find out that Le Pen was involved. The fact that they did not do that, means they gave people like Le Pen an amnesty.
It does not mean they ordered him to do what he did or that they watched him do it without intervening.

(As far as I understand) There is no proof that the French State knew about what Le Pen was doing while he was doing it. Hence there is no proof that the French State could have prevented it by directly targeting Le Pen.