Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Wrong.... A weight traing session burns loads of calories. When doing cardio excercise the body burns calories but does little for the metabolic rate post training, where weight training ups the metabolic rate by 15% for upto 39hrs following a workout this allows each session to account for more fat loss that cardio through burning more calories over the 39hr period. Cardio also burns lean muscle and consiquently reduced muscles ability to burn fat in the body. Testosterone and human groth hormone are also relesed which also contribute through their fat burning characteristics. The time spent working out depends upon the aim of working out and the training programme used. Larger muscles burn more calories just resting and so it is more productive to do low rep high weight excercises to stimulate fast-twitch muscle fibers (white type 2) to allow for faster growth and so more energy burning capactity to get slim and stay that way. If one wants to exchange fat for muscle and become he man rather sharpish it is possible to train every day on a muscle group rotation basis.
    Nuff said
    oops
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Wrong.... A weight traing session burns loads of calories. When doing cardio excercise the body burns calories but does little for the metabolic rate post training, where weight training ups the metabolic rate by 15% for upto 39hrs following a workout this allows each session to account for more fat loss that cardio through burning more calories over the 39hr period. Cardio also burns lean muscle and consiquently reduced muscles ability to burn fat in the body. Testosterone and human groth hormone are also relesed which also contribute through their fat burning characteristics. The time spent working out depends upon the aim of working out and the training programme used. Larger muscles burn more calories just resting and so it is more productive to do low rep high weight excercises to stimulate fast-twitch muscle fibers (white type 2) to allow for faster growth and so more energy burning capactity to get slim and stay that way. If one wants to exchange fat for muscle and become he man rather sharpish it is possible to train every day on a muscle group rotation basis.
    Nuff said
    Errr, Id like to see you make gains training different muscle groups everyday. Its not just about the muscle groups, youll suffer from overtraining if you train everyday whether you work different muscles or not. You dont give your body a chance to rest/recover, which is when the muscle grows.

    Lets put this into perspective, 15% of 2000 calories is 300 calories yes? I dont know what kind of weight training sessions you do, but in mine theyre very low intensity(other than during sets) with fairly large gaps between exercises. I reckon thatll burn 400 calories at most in 75 minutes, if youre lucky. Similarly, a 75 minute session of even low intensity cardio will burn probably around 1000-1500 calories. Thats 700 calories in 40 hours from a weight training session, when I could of done 2 x 1500 calorie sessions by doing cardio. You do the math.

    Yes, as I said, cardio does burn lean muscle, if you do it at the wrong intensity/heart rate. If youre doing cardio and your heartrate is less than 140bpm hardly any protein/lean muscle will be used for fuel, although its inevitable that some will, and of course this is different for everyone..and while were at it, for the average person(ie. no additional muscle mass) this point is basically irrelevant.

    As you correctly said, more muscle mass = more calories burned, Id like to see you put on muscle mass by doing low weights and high reps. Once youve got the mass, then it might be productive, although its still better to do cardio than this kind of resitance training.


    Hopefully this has cleared up some of your confusion
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imasillynarb)
    Errr, Id like to see you make gains training different muscle groups everyday. Its not just about the muscle groups, youll suffer from overtraining if you train everyday whether you work different muscles or not.

    Lets put this into perspective, 15% of 2000 calories is 300 calories yes? I dont know what kind of weight training sessions you do, but in mine theyre very low intensity(other than during sets) with fairly large gaps between exercises. I reckon thatll burn 400 calories at most in 75 minutes, if youre lucky. Similarly, a 75 minute session of even low intesnity cardio will burn probably around 1000-1500 calories.

    Yes, as I said, cardio does burn lean muscle, if you do it at the wrong intensity/heart rate. If youre doing cardio and your heartrate is less than 140bpm hardly any protein/lean muscle will be used for fuel, although its inevitable that some will, and of course this is different for everyone..and while were at it, for the average person(ie. no additional muscle mass) this point is basically irrelevant.

    As you correctly said, more muscle mass = more calories burned, Id like to see you put on muscle mass by doing low weights and high reps. Once youve got the mass, then it might be productive, although its still better to do cardio than this kind of resitance training.
    OK its fine doing group rotations every day I did it for years, the only issue is there is always something hurting. Cardio burns a certain amount of muscle at any heart rate. To burn 1000-1500 calories doing light cardio such as jogging would take over 3 hrs as jogging burns 480 cals per hour, the body burns aroun 60% of its total calories per day through the basic metabolic rate. This means that the average male body uses up 1500 cals per day just to sustain the body functions 750 make up all movements per day and the last 10% 250 cals make up Dietary Thermogenesis the calories burned in the process of eating, digesting, absorbing and using food. There for if you were to burn off 1500 cals through cardio you would need to eat 4000 cals per day to prevent your self from wasting away. Weight training will burn off around 120 cals per 1hr session. High weight low rep is best for mass and short energy bursts but by doing high rep and low weight exercises slow twitch fibers are built up which are built for endurance as seen in the calfs, it does build muscle its just a different sort. A combination of cadio and weight training is the best way to lose weight through sustained high metabolic rate and the fast burning sessions of calories through cardio
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    OK its fine doing group rotations every day I did it for years, the only issue is there is always something hurting. Cardio burns a certain amount of muscle at any heart rate. To burn 1000-1500 calories doing light cardio such as jogging would take over 3 hrs as jogging burns 480 cals per hour, the body burns aroun 60% of its total calories per day through the basic metabolic rate. This means that the average male body uses up 1500 cals per day just to sustain the body functions 750 make up all movements per day and the last 10% 250 cals make up Dietary Thermogenesis the calories burned in the process of eating, digesting, absorbing and using food. There for if you were to burn off 1500 cals through cardio you would need to eat 4000 cals per day to prevent your self from wasting away. Weight training will burn off around 120 cals per 1hr session. High weight low rep is best for mass and short energy bursts but by doing high rep and low weight exercises slow twitch fibers are built up which are built for endurance as seen in the calfs, it does build muscle its just a different sort. A combination of cadio and weight training is the best way to lose weight through sustained high metabolic rate and the fast burning sessions of calories through cardio
    Isnt that exactly what I said?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hornblower)
    Lose fat all over, not weight. Dieting alone loses more muscle than fat, even if it does make one appear thinner. A combination of CV, resistance training and sensible diet should give good results.
    yeh, yeh i had to dash therefore was in a hurry, i meant fat. Dieting if done correctly does not lose more muscle than fat. It only does so if in combination with a lack of protein in the diet and high intensity training.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    narb is right as well, group rotations does not work without destroying muscle. This is because a group actually works the whole body and the nervous system which is what is needed to increase the muscles.

    The way that muscles grow is by encouraging the production of muscle fibres and to do so, you stretch them, putting pressure. If you overtrain, you pull them too hard and start to break them. You need to rest the muscles for more fibre to grow which is why you tend to have 2/3 rest days a week. The principle of heavy sets low reps is used to encourage the maximum stress on the muscles without overworking them. If you train you need to have lots of protein in your diet.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JSM)
    If you train you need to have lots of protein in your diet.
    Yes. Lots.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JSM)
    narb is right as well, group rotations does not work without destroying muscle. This is because a group actually works the whole body and the nervous system which is what is needed to increase the muscles.

    The way that muscles grow is by encouraging the production of muscle fibres and to do so, you stretch them, putting pressure. If you overtrain, you pull them too hard and start to break them. You need to rest the muscles for more fibre to grow which is why you tend to have 2/3 rest days a week. The principle of heavy sets low reps is used to encourage the maximum stress on the muscles without overworking them. If you train you need to have lots of protein in your diet.
    Without destroying muscle it will not grow, stretching muscles does not cause them to grow, resistance traing actually ripps the muscle fibers so they have to be replaced with more. It is fine to do daily workouts so long as there is a gap of 2 or 3 days between working the same muscles again. It is only nesessary to rest the areas that have been worked and the whole body is not worked in most excercises except possibly squats and the like. As for the nervous system would you mind explaining how that becomes stressed through weight traing? Another point is the myth that the body needs loads of protein, more than enough protien is supplied through a balenced diet to aid in the muscle building process. Purchaseing musce drinks and the like is not required.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JSM)
    narb is right as well, group rotations does not work without destroying muscle. This is because a group actually works the whole body and the nervous system which is what is needed to increase the muscles.

    The way that muscles grow is by encouraging the production of muscle fibres and to do so, you stretch them, putting pressure. If you overtrain, you pull them too hard and start to break them. You need to rest the muscles for more fibre to grow which is why you tend to have 2/3 rest days a week. The principle of heavy sets low reps is used to encourage the maximum stress on the muscles without overworking them. If you train you need to have lots of protein in your diet.
    Muscles grow by breaking them, as Ive said before breaking the muscle causes your body to think '****, dont want this to happen again, lets put on some more muscle!', like you say, you need alot of protein to do this, 1-1.5lb per bodyweight infact.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Without destroying muscle it will not grow, stretching muscles does not cause them to grow, resistance traing actually ripps the muscle fibers so they have to be replaced with more. It is fine to do daily workouts so long as there is a gap of 2 or 3 days between working the same muscles again. It is only nesessary to rest the areas that have been worked and the whole body is not worked in most excercises except possibly squats and the like. As for the nervous system would you mind explaining how that becomes stressed through weight traing? Another point is the myth that the body needs loads of protein, more than enough protien is supplied through a balenced diet to aid in the muscle building process. Purchaseing musce drinks and the like is not required.
    Your posts are becoming more and more inaccurate as the night goes on it seems. Your nervous sytem does suffer(I dont know how) which is why you will overtrain if you train everyday, whether its the same muscle group or not. And if youre doing compound exercises, which is what youll be doing if you want to put muscle mass on, then you wont be able to workout everyday and still make gains. Id agree that purchasing whey isnt realy necessary, but then getting protein without carbs/fat is hard to do. You can only really do it by eating chicken/tuna in every meal, not something Id particularly like to do. Whey is also the cheapest form of protein, which is why most people use it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Recommended protien intake for an 80kg bodybuilder is 180grams per day spread over 6 meals to avoid the body flushing it out, research has suggested that only 30grams of protien can be taken into the body in one sitting. It eqates to approx 1gram per pound of body weight.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Recommended protien intake for an 80kg bodybuilder is 180grams per day spread over 6 meals to avoid the body flushing it out, research has suggested that only 30grams of protien can be taken into the body in one sitting. It eqates to approx 1gram per pound of body weight.
    And that 'research' has been proven to be a load of *******s time and time again. You can digest as much protein as you can eat in one sitting, I dont know many 80kg bodybuilders eating 180grams of protein a day, I know loads of 80kg bodybuilders that eat 300grams a day though.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The nervous system does not suffer through weight training in any way which means one does not have to rest it overtraing is the result of over stressing muscle fibers. The only reason for resting is simply to allow muscles to repair themselves, if on rotation you do not stress muscles during their recovery period then rotation training is faultless. I trained this way for a year and had no difficulties what so ever. I train using isolation exercises and compound excercises and it is not at all difficult to allow muscles their recovery period. Compound excercises in general stress only one or very few primary muscles to the extent that they need recovery the support or secondary muscles in many cases are not stressed sufficently to warrant long recovery periods as they have not been damaged.
    Cheerio
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    The nervous system does not suffer through weight training in any way which means one does not have to rest it overtraing is the result of over stressing muscle fibers. The only reason for resting is simply to allow muscles to repair themselves, if on rotation you do not stress muscles during their recovery period then rotation training is faultless. I trained this way for a year and had no difficulties what so ever. I train using isolation exercises and compound excercises and it is not at all difficult to allow muscles their recovery period. Compound excercises in general stress only one or very few primary muscles to the extent that they need recovery the support or secondary muscles in many cases are not stressed sufficently to warrant long recovery periods as they have not been damaged.
    Cheerio
    OK, so why dont professional natural bodybuilders train everyday then? Infact, some steroid taking bodybuilders dont train everyday. Why not?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imasillynarb)
    And that 'research' has been proven to be a load of *******s time and time again. You can digest as much protein as you can eat in one sitting, I dont know many 80kg bodybuilders eating 180grams of protein a day, I know loads of 80kg bodybuilders that eat 300grams a day though.
    Exactly what I said, its a myth and yes I am aware that there is no proof to support the 30 grams per sitting limit but I have to point out that there is no evidence to prove this wrong. As I said research has 'suggested' this. However It is proven that the required protien needed for training is given in a balenced diet and the excess is merely flushed out of the system.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Exactly what I said, its a myth and yes I am aware that there is no proof to support the 30 grams per sitting limit but I have to point out that there is no evidence to prove this wrong. As I said research has 'suggested' this. However It is proven that the required protien needed for training is given in a balenced diet and the excess is merely flushed out of the system.
    If you have 'excess' protein in your system, I assume you mean a calorie surplus? If so, it will a) repair muscle(if youve been training) b) be stored as fat. It doesnt just get 'flushed out'
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imasillynarb)
    OK, so why dont professional natural bodybuilders train everyday then? Infact, some steroid taking bodybuilders dont train everyday. Why not?
    Most people do not like to train every day, bodybuilders generally concentrate on combo excercises that cover many muscles such as clean and jerk, squat and deadlifts etc. This means that rest periods for individual muscles are difficult to achieve. There are also many bodybuilders who do train every day.... many bodybuilders on steriods cram as much training into the stacking period as possible.

    The amount of time you spend traing per week is purly a preference.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Exactly what I said, its a myth and yes I am aware that there is no proof to support the 30 grams per sitting limit but I have to point out that there is no evidence to prove this wrong. As I said research has 'suggested' this. However It is proven that the required protien needed for training is given in a balenced diet and the excess is merely flushed out of the system.
    Your last comment is so ******** its unreal...a balanced diet? 'Balanced diets' vary massively, how can it be proven that a 'balanced diet' provides the necessary protein?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imasillynarb)
    If you have 'excess' protein in your system, I assume you mean a calorie surplus? If so, it will a) repair muscle(if youve been training) b) be stored as fat. It doesnt just get 'flushed out'
    Do some research you will find that I am right....
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Investmentboy)
    Most people do not like to train every day, bodybuilders generally concentrate on combo excercises that cover many muscles such as clean and jerk, squat and deadlifts etc. This means that rest periods for individual muscles are difficult to achieve. There are also many bodybuilders who do train every day.... many bodybuilders on steriods cram as much training into the stacking period as possible.

    The amount of time you spend traing per week is purly a preference.
    Bodybuilders use compound and isolation movements, and dont train everyday. Explain to me why they only train a particular muscle group once a week(traditionally) and I did say that even some steroid users dont train everyday. Surely by your logic everyone should be training everyday in order to achieve the best results?
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: June 25, 2004
Poll
Who is most responsible for your success at university
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.