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Some help with differentiation, please? (screenshots)

I have two separate homework questions I'm having issues with.

First Question:

Applying product rule:

f'(x) = 2(1+x)(e^-x) + (-e^-x)((1+x)^2)

Simplifies as:

f'(x) = (-e^-x)(x^2-1)

It's here that I don't know what to do. How would I go about the rest of the question?












Second question:

First of all, is that two separate functions? i.e. - Would I be using the product rule to differentiate? Or is it the log *of* the square root of x^2+3?

Also, how would you do the second part?



Thanks guys.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by ddhurst
I have two separate homework questions I'm having issues with.

First Question:

Applying product rule:

f'(x) = 2(1+x)(e^-x) + (-e^-x)((1+x)^2)

Simplifies as:

f'(x) = (-e^-x)(x^2-1)

It's here that I don't know what to do. How would I go about the rest of the question?












Second question:

First of all, is that two separate functions? i.e. - Would I be using the product rule to differentiate? Or is it the log *of* the square root of x^2+3?

Also, how would you do the second part?



Thanks guys.



1) Find where f'(x)>0 as that will give you the range of values for which the function is increasing.
Reply 2
Original post by Kool_Panda
1) Find where f'(x)>0 as that will give you the range of values for which the function is increasing.


How would I do that?

(-e^-x)(x^2-1) > 0

What is it I do to find what the x values are?

Sorry, I'm rusty as hell after the holidays. No maths for 2-3 months.
Original post by ddhurst
How would I do that?

(-e^-x)(x^2-1) > 0

What is it I do to find what the x values are?

Sorry, I'm rusty as hell after the holidays. No maths for 2-3 months.


Haha, me too.

split it into 2 parts

so find where:

-e^-x > 0
and
x^2-1 > 0

You should run into a problem with the first one.
Reply 4
Bump
Reply 5
Original post by Kool_Panda
Haha, me too.

split it into 2 parts

so find where:

-e^-x > 0
and
x^2-1 > 0

You should run into a problem with the first one.


No idea what to do here?
Reply 6
Original post by ddhurst
No idea what to do here?


Solve the inequalities for x. You do understand why you do this, right?
Reply 7
Original post by Sataris
Solve the inequalities for x. You do understand why you do this, right?


Pretty sure I did at some point, lol.

I honestly can't remember learning anything about increasing/decreasing functions. All I remember doing is stationary points.
Reply 8
Original post by ddhurst
Pretty sure I did at some point, lol.

I honestly can't remember learning anything about increasing/decreasing functions. All I remember doing is stationary points.


Okay, so you've got the derivative of the function. This is like the gradient. When the gradient is positive (i.e. >0), the function is "increasing". (And I guess stationary points are when it's equal to 0.) So you must find the range of values of x for which the function is increasing. To do this, solve the inequality: derivative > 0.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by ddhurst
No idea what to do here?


So

-e^-x > 0
you can't solve this for x as ln(0) is undefined

x^2-1 > 0
x^2 > 1
mod(x) > 1

(or x > 1 and x < -1)

What you need to know for this is that the derivative finds the gradient and when the gradient is greater than 0 a function is increasing.
Reply 10
Original post by Sataris
Okay, so you've got the derivative of the function. This is like the gradient. When the gradient is positive (i.e. >0), the function is "increasing". (And I guess stationary points are when it's equal to 0.) So you must find the range of values of x for which the function is increasing. To do this, solve the inequality: derivative > 0.



Original post by Kool_Panda
So

-e^-x > 0
you can't solve this for x as ln(0) is undefined

x^2-1 > 0
x^2 > 1
mod(x) > 1

(or x > 1 and x < -1)

What you need to know for this is that the derivative finds the gradient and when the gradient is greater than 0 a function is increasing.


Ahh, yeah, I remember now. You could find if the graph of the function was negative/positive or decreasing/increasing by plugging x values into the function's derivative. We did that when finding the nature of stationary points.

So, my answer would be that the function is increasing when x is greater than 1 and when x is less than 1? (Obviously showing the working)
Original post by ddhurst





Ahh, yeah, I remember now. You could find if the graph of the function was negative/positive or decreasing/increasing by plugging x values into the function's derivative. We did that when finding the nature of stationary points.

So, my answer would be that the function is increasing when x is greater than 1 and when x is less than 1?


Yes
Reply 12
Original post by Kool_Panda
Yes


Can I ask you one more quick thing:

1. What would be the correct working/notation for this line... is mine correct?

-e^-x > 0
-(loge)e^-x > log(0)
log(0) = undefined

Is that suffice? Then go on to ((x^2)-1) > 0 ... etc etc
Original post by Kool_Panda
Yes


Hang on a sec - this shows it to be increasing between -1 and 1. I guess there was a typo somewhere.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by notnek
Your derivative is wrong because of a mistake in your working shown above in red.

2(1+x)exex(1+x)2=ex(1+x)(2(1+x))\displaystyle 2(1+x)e^{-x}-e^{-x}(1+x)^2 = e^{-x}(1+x)\left(2-(1+x)\right)

=ex(1+x)(1+x))=ex(1+x)2\displaystyle = e^{-x}(1+x)\left(1+x)\right) = e^{-x}(1+x)^2


so where do i go from there?

e^-x > 0

still comes out as undefined, does it not?
Reply 15
Original post by ddhurst
so where do i go from there?

e^-x > 0

still comes out as undefined, does it not?

Sorry, tried to do all my working while typing the post (a bad idea).

Ignore my last post - I'll have another look now.
Reply 16
Original post by ddhurst
so where do i go from there?

e^-x > 0

still comes out as undefined, does it not?

Original post by Kool_Panda
..

Your derivative was correct. So your problem boiled down to solving this inequality

ex(x21)>0-e^{-x}(x^2-1)>0

Firstly exe^{-x} is always positive which means that ex-e^{-x} is always negative. So for the above inequality to hold, we need x21x^2-1 to also be negative i.e. we need to solve

x21<0x^2-1<0

You could have written your derivative as ex(1x2)e^{-x}(1-x^2) and then since exe^{-x} is always positive, you would need to solve

1x2>01-x^2>0

which is equivalent to the previous inequality.

Does this make sense and are you OK solving the quadratic inequality?
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 17
Original post by notnek
Your derivative was correct. So your problem boiled down to solving this inequality

ex(x21)>0-e^{-x}(x^2-1)>0

Firstly exe^{-x} is always positive which means that ex-e^{-x} is always negative. So for the above inequality to hold, we need x21x^2-1 to also be negative i.e. we need to solve

x21<0x^2-1<0

You could have written your derivative as ex(1x2)e^{-x}(1-x^2) and then since exe^{-x} is always positive, you would need to solve

1x2>01-x^2>0

which is equivalent to the previous inequality.

Does this make sense and are you OK solving the quadratic inequality?


I get what you're saying.

As for the quadratic inequality... would it be:

1 - x^2 > 0
- x^2 > -1
x^2 > 1
x > -1, 1

I don't really know what to deduce from that it terms of an increasing function...
Reply 18
Original post by ddhurst
I get what you're saying.

As for the quadratic inequality... would it be:

1 - x^2 > 0
- x^2 > -1
x^2 > 1
x > -1, 1

I don't really know what to deduce from that it terms of an increasing function...

I think you need to review quadratic inequalities - you can't solve them exactly like how you solve an equation. The line in bold above doesn't mean anything.

And you've also made a mistake from your second line to your third line. Dividing an inequality by a negative reverses the inequality sign. You don't even need your second line, just start from the first and move the x^2 to the other side:

1x2>01>x21-x^2>0 \Rightarrow 1>x^2

As you can see, this is different to what you wrote.

I can help you more tomorrow but it could be easier for you to look up in a textbook etc. how to solve quadratic inequalities.
Reply 19
Original post by ddhurst

I don't really know what to deduce from that it terms of an increasing function...

I can also help you with this tomorrow.

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