The European Union and the United Kingdom - Megathread

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MrMacho
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#1
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Welcome to the definitive European Union referendum thread, as it is currently possible for the referendum to go ahead at any time regardless of who is in power after the next general election due to pressure from all sides to get something in motion and legislation in place regarding changes of power.

The referendum debate is likely to run for years, as is the European Union debate. Therefore it seems only apt that we have a central discussion thread on this forum in which to debate the latest news, our views, potential dates and key issues on the subjects.

Let's start with some facts and leave the opinions for later in the thread:

A very brief history of Britain in the European Union:

  • 1961 - Harold McMillan as Prime Minister of the UK applies to join the European Economic Community (EEC)
  • 1963 - General Charles de Gaulle refuses the UK's application
  • 1965 - Merger Treaty signed
  • 1973 - UK joins the European Community under Edward Heath
  • 1975 - Harold Wilson holds to flagship policy of referendum on whether Britain should remain in the EEC with 67.23% of a 65% turnout agreeing to remain
  • June 1979 - Elections to the European Parliament were first held establishing the parliament
  • 1 November 1993 - Maastricht Treaty signed establishing the European Union as we know it today
  • 2001 - Britain refuses to join the single currency
  • 2009 - Lisbon Treaty Signed
  • 2011 - So called referendum lock bill passed into law


And Main Party Stances on European Referendum:

Conservatives: David Cameron "Whatever it takes I will deliver that in-out referendum." Rough timetable is in 2017.
Labour: Ed Miliband "a referendum is unlikely to take place if Labour win the next election"
Liberal Democrats: Nick Clegg has flat-out stated no referendum
UK Independence Party: - Support a referendum and a leaving outcome.
Greens: - Support a referendum and a staying outcome.
SNP: Don't support a referendum
Plaid Cymru: Don't Support a referendum

So what do the people of TSR think is the best option for Britain now, and how will you be voting in any potential referendum on EU membership?
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Jackoclypse
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#2
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I'd vote No to leaving the EU. The UK leaving the EU would be like Scotland leaving the UK. Lots of instability crash in the value of the pound bad times all around so no thanks.
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MrMacho
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(Original post by Jackoclypse)
I'd vote No to leaving the EU. The UK leaving the EU would be like Scotland leaving the UK. Lots of instability crash in the value of the pound bad times all around so no thanks.
I really don't think it would - to start the bat off it would give us greater trading freedom with other commonwealth nations and emerging areas as we wouldn't be bound by European trading regulations.
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Jackoclypse
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(Original post by MrMacho)
I really don't think it would - to start the bat off it would give us greater trading freedom with other commonwealth nations and emerging areas as we wouldn't be bound by European trading regulations.
It would also make exporting to Europe which is a bigger partner much harder and a lot of those trading regulations are there for good reasons.
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Aj12
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(Original post by MrMacho)
I really don't think it would - to start the bat off it would give us greater trading freedom with other commonwealth nations and emerging areas as we wouldn't be bound by European trading regulations.
If we went to trade with the eu (biggest trade partner) we'd have to follow those regulations which we would not have a say in. Hardly seems a good outcome.

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MrMacho
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(Original post by Jackoclypse)
It would also make exporting to Europe which is a bigger partner much harder and a lot of those trading regulations are there for good reasons.
(Original post by Aj12)
If we went to trade with the eu (biggest trade partner) we'd have to follow those regulations which we would not have a say in. Hardly seems a good outcome.

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No, we wouldn't. China manages to trade with the EU without following the vast majority of EU laws.
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Snagprophet
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I'm fine with the EU, I just want some changes made to it.
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democracyforum
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Our only hope is if the EU collapses, and we leave the EU that way.

We will never, ever get a (rigged) referendum.

Anyone who hasn't realised that by now, is blind.

A referendum is not the solution. We would always be shackled to the EU no matter what.
They won't let us leave, be realistic about this.
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MrMacho
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(Original post by democracyforum)
Our only hope is if the EU collapses, and we leave the EU that way.

We will never, ever get a (rigged) referendum.

Anyone who hasn't realised that by now, is blind.
I believe we will get a non-rigged referendum within the next decade and me eyesight is fine thank you.
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Pro_crastinator
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Im all for staying in the EU, I just want changes done to it, particularly about Immigration and "free movement" in the EU
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democracyforum
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#11
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(Original post by Aj12)
If we went to trade with the eu (biggest trade partner) we'd have to follow those regulations which we would not have a say in. Hardly seems a good outcome.

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We currently hold no weight or say in the EU anyway.

It is more of a French-German empire we are involved in, where every other country is irrelevant.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by MrMacho)
Welcome to the definitive European Union referendum thread, as it is currently possible for the referendum to go ahead at any time regardless of who is in power after the next general election due to pressure from all sides to get something in motion and legislation in place regarding changes of power.

The referendum debate is likely to run for years, as is the European Union debate. Therefore it seems only apt that we have a central discussion thread on this forum in which to debate the latest news, our views, potential dates and key issues on the subjects.

Let's start with some facts and leave the opinions for later in the thread:

A very brief history of Britain in the European Union:

  • 1961 - Harold McMillan as Prime Minister of the UK applies to join the European Economic Community (EEC)
  • 1963 - General Charles de Gaulle refuses the UK's application
  • 1965 - Merger Treaty signed
  • 1973 - UK joins the European Community under Edward Heath
  • 1975 - Harold Wilson holds to flagship policy of referendum on whether Britain should remain in the EEC with 67.23% of a 65% turnout agreeing to remain
  • June 1979 - Elections to the European Parliament were first held establishing the parliament
  • 1 November 1993 - Maastricht Treaty signed establishing the European Union as we know it today
  • 2001 - Britain refuses to join the single currency
  • 2009 - Lisbon Treaty Signed
  • 2011 - So called referendum lock bill passed into law


And Main Party Stances on European Referendum:

Conservatives: David Cameron "Whatever it takes I will deliver that in-out referendum." Rough timetable is in 2017.
Labour: Ed Miliband "a referendum is unlikely to take place if Labour win the next election"
Liberal Democrats: Nick Clegg has flat-out stated no referendum
UK Independence Party: - Support a referendum and a leaving outcome.
Greens: - Support a referendum and a staying outcome.
SNP: Don't support a referendum
Plaid Cymru: Don't Support a referendum

So what do the people of TSR think is the best option for Britain now, and how will you be voting in any potential referendum on EU membership?
Wrong.

Conservatives: David Cameron : said they would only give a referendum if they get a majority win in the election.

Considering that will not happen, therefore we get no referendum.

UKIP will never get in power realistically, so basically we won't get a referendum.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Pro_crastinator)
Im all for staying in the EU, I just want changes done to it, particularly about Immigration and "free movement" in the EU
Keep on dreaming. Changes will never happen.

The whole purpose of the EU is free travel around Europe.
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MrMacho
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I've quoted David Cameron's exact words, the fact there bull**** is unimportant. Obviously if he doesn't win the election he can't deliver the election but that's common sense I didn't think I needed to spell it out. Unless you've got anything constructive to contribute to the debate please find another thread to rot to death in.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by MrMacho)
I've quoted David Cameron's exact words, the fact there bull**** is unimportant. Obviously if he doesn't win the election he can't deliver the election but that's common sense I didn't think I needed to spell it out. Unless you've got anything constructive to contribute to the debate please find another thread to rot to death in.

If we can stay in the EU without voting on it, how is that democratic ?

It would be no different than leaving the EU without a vote.

The public cannot be trusted to vote for their own demise .

And cameron is a liar who changes his mind every week on subjects like this.
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MrMacho
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#16
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(Original post by democracyforum)
If we can stay in the EU without voting on it, how is that democratic ?

It would be no different than leaving the EU without a vote.

The public cannot be trusted to vote for their own demise .

And cameron is a liar who changes his mind every week on subjects like this.
Whilst I have very little respect for Cameron on most issues, he has held the same position on the since before the last election - attempt to renegotiate and hold a referendum on the membership of the renegotiated EU.
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tengentoppa
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I'd like to see the UK take a more leading role in the EU. The 3 biggest economies and biggest sponsors of the EU are Germany, France and the UK. But whilst France and Germany dominate the EU with France benefiting from the COP and Germany exporting loads we seem to sit on the sidelines not getting a big enough return on our investment.

But I would vote no in a referendum, I support the EU as a whole.
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zgb1
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#18
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#18
Please UK, do not leave us. You will break our heart. We have achieved so much good together in the last 60 years.
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Aj12
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#19
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(Original post by MrMacho)
No, we wouldn't. China manages to trade with the EU without following the vast majority of EU laws.
We aren't China. I very much doubt we would be trading on the same terms.
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MrMacho
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Aj12)
We aren't China. I very much doubt we would be trading on the same terms.
It would be very difficult for the EU to operate a hypocritical approach
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