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Little Miss Jocelyn
14
I have to say i find this comedy pretty funny (if a little repetitive). However what i find remarkable is it seems to derive 90% of its humour from black/others relations. Here we have a black comedian quite blatantly engaging in typical "racist" prejudice and generalisations and treating black and white people different. If for comic effect.
The issue i'd like you to discuss is whether this is healthy/unhealthy and also why is it ok that racist humour is ok if the person saying it is that race? but not ok if its from someone of a different race? For example if the comedian was white this program would get taken of the air in seconds, yet the jokes would still be pretty much the same and it would still be funny.
Is this an example of the racial double standard, whereby white people mentioning race is taboo and black people mentioning race is ok? it seems to me a few black comedians are actually carviing their careers from this double standard.
The issue i'd like you to discuss is whether this is healthy/unhealthy and also why is it ok that racist humour is ok if the person saying it is that race? but not ok if its from someone of a different race? For example if the comedian was white this program would get taken of the air in seconds, yet the jokes would still be pretty much the same and it would still be funny.
Is this an example of the racial double standard, whereby white people mentioning race is taboo and black people mentioning race is ok? it seems to me a few black comedians are actually carviing their careers from this double standard.
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Reply 1
Little Britain anyone. That proved that people still find racist humour funny coming from whites; White comedians spitting out tea and cakes and being sick because it was made by Indians and Blacks. Nobody thought it was racist, everyone thought it was funny, because it just was, anyhow Little Miss Jocelyn is sending up black people not any other race. I think any racist humour is funny as long as there is no malice intended, making fun of ones own race is naturally more often than not in good humour. Also if most races are collectively mocked, its more of a witty observation rather than an attack. I wouldnt say quite a few black comedians were doing this either as according to The Guardian, Jocelyn Jee Esien is the first black female comedian to have her own sketch show.
Reply 2
Bluelight
Little Britain anyone. That proved that people still find racist humour funny coming from whites; White comedians spitting out tea and cakes and being sick because it was made by Indians and Blacks. Nobody thought it was racist, everyone thought it was funny, because it just was, anyhow Little Miss Jocelyn is sending up black people not any other race. I think any racist humour is funny as long as there is no malice intended, making fun of ones own race is naturally more often than not in good humour. Also if most races are collectively mocked, its more of a witty observation rather than an attack. I wouldnt say quite a few black comedians were doing this either as according to The Guardian, Jocelyn Jee Esien is the first black female comedian to have her own sketch show.
Yes, that Little Britain skit was hilarious.
Reply 3
To be honest, I'm not fussed if it's racist or not. Lenny Henry was doing this years ago and it was genuinely funny. This, however, is the worst use of television today. I'd put it below adverts and that takes a lot.
Reply 4
17
I've only seen one sketch by this miss jocyne, something in an airport, but it was total ****. Really.
Just another step down for british television i think.
on to the question: no I don't think it's ok.
Just another step down for british television i think.
on to the question: no I don't think it's ok.
Reply 5
It's usually tongue in cheek. Treating serious issues with levity can sometimes diffuse them.
Reply 6
17
I hate catchphrase based humour anway.
It died with "BRILLIANT!"
It died with "BRILLIANT!"
Reply 7
How totally ridiculous to say that there's anything racist in the sketches that Little Miss Jocelyn does. If you actually had any experience of black people, their different cultures especially within London then you would understand this as not racist because the characters that she portrays are more than just stereotypes, they are the people I have grown up with. This is why it is funny, not because it is somehow poking fun at minorities.
What really annoys me about this issue is that little middle class boys like yourself have a real tendency towards hushing up the issue of race altogether. Any intellegent comment about race or differing cultures is then considered racist. This only highlights, however, your own uninsightful and inexperienced attitude towards racial issues and cross-culturalism.
Surely I can find Little Miss Jocelyn funny (especially as the traffic warden "I am university certificationalated, this will take a looong time") not because I am taking a dim view of black people, but because I accept them as part of the society in which I live and can appreciate the humour in the people that I grew up with.
How dare you suggest otherwise! Little Miss Jocelyn is one of the most positive things to have been publicised of the black british community in years. At a time when all we hear about is hoddies and gun crime, she shows these very same "youths" on a bus as innocent children having a laugh with eachother; something we can all relate to.
This is far from the negative impression of black people that a racist would want you to have. Instead of showing alienation and the negatives of immigration and immigrants as some alien species she highlights the humour of multiculturalism, how we relate to black people on an everyday basis and how in many ways the humour is universal.
So no, this is not a racist comedy. It is nothing but naive to consider white and black people as if they were the same, because they are not, we are all different. It is a totally unenlightened view to ignore difference, you have to embrace difference with open arms and only then we can be a more tolerant society.
What really annoys me about this issue is that little middle class boys like yourself have a real tendency towards hushing up the issue of race altogether. Any intellegent comment about race or differing cultures is then considered racist. This only highlights, however, your own uninsightful and inexperienced attitude towards racial issues and cross-culturalism.
Surely I can find Little Miss Jocelyn funny (especially as the traffic warden "I am university certificationalated, this will take a looong time") not because I am taking a dim view of black people, but because I accept them as part of the society in which I live and can appreciate the humour in the people that I grew up with.
How dare you suggest otherwise! Little Miss Jocelyn is one of the most positive things to have been publicised of the black british community in years. At a time when all we hear about is hoddies and gun crime, she shows these very same "youths" on a bus as innocent children having a laugh with eachother; something we can all relate to.
This is far from the negative impression of black people that a racist would want you to have. Instead of showing alienation and the negatives of immigration and immigrants as some alien species she highlights the humour of multiculturalism, how we relate to black people on an everyday basis and how in many ways the humour is universal.
So no, this is not a racist comedy. It is nothing but naive to consider white and black people as if they were the same, because they are not, we are all different. It is a totally unenlightened view to ignore difference, you have to embrace difference with open arms and only then we can be a more tolerant society.
Reply 8
Thought I had better back up my assertion with a quote.
The fact of the matter is that this is not a double standard. White people do not talk about race because they may be percieved as racist by other white people, how is this anything to do with black people.
In a society where there exists free speech (bar inciting racial hatred) then why not articulate your true honest opinion about race. You may actually then learn something about the views you dismiss as racist. For if any opinion about racial integration is viewed as inherently taboo then no progress can ever be made.
It seems to me from what you've written that you are quite bitter about not being able to talk about race as freely as you would want to for fear of being called racist. Ultimately, though, it is your choice what you view as taboo or not taboo (shakespeare parody?
).
zebedee
For example if the comedian was white this program would get taken of the air in seconds, yet the jokes would still be pretty much the same and it would still be funny.
Is this an example of the racial double standard, whereby white people mentioning race is taboo and black people mentioning race is ok? it seems to me a few black comedians are actually carviing their careers from this double standard.
Is this an example of the racial double standard, whereby white people mentioning race is taboo and black people mentioning race is ok? it seems to me a few black comedians are actually carviing their careers from this double standard.
The fact of the matter is that this is not a double standard. White people do not talk about race because they may be percieved as racist by other white people, how is this anything to do with black people.
In a society where there exists free speech (bar inciting racial hatred) then why not articulate your true honest opinion about race. You may actually then learn something about the views you dismiss as racist. For if any opinion about racial integration is viewed as inherently taboo then no progress can ever be made.
It seems to me from what you've written that you are quite bitter about not being able to talk about race as freely as you would want to for fear of being called racist. Ultimately, though, it is your choice what you view as taboo or not taboo (shakespeare parody?
).Reply 9
10
You clearly have never seen Peter Russell
Reply 10
Arminius
OP
14
Esquire
The fact of the matter is that this is not a double standard. White people do not talk about race because they may be percieved as racist by other white people, how is this anything to do with black people.
Umm, no. They don't joke about race in that way because both white and black people have complained alot in the past. mostly black people actually.
In a society where there exists free speech (bar inciting racial hatred) then why not articulate your true honest opinion about race.
Well exactly, i do a fair bit in D & D and am often called racist for it.
You may actually then learn something about the views you dismiss as racist. For if any opinion about racial integration is viewed as inherently taboo then no progress can ever be made.
Yep, i agree.
It seems to me from what you've written that you are quite bitter about not being able to talk about race as freely as you would want to for fear of being called racist. Ultimately, though, it is your choice what you view as taboo or not taboo (shakespeare parody? ).
).Well yes, i don't enjoy being called a racist. When all i want to do is talk about racial issue etc so that progress can be made. I think you've missed the point of my post entirely, and that is that there is a double standard between what is acceptable for a white person to say and what is acceptable for a black person to say.
Reply 11
If a white person was to "blacken up" and then perform any of the scenes performed on this apparent comedy there would be an outcry.
Reply 12
Bluelight
Little Britain anyone. That proved that people still find racist humour funny coming from whites; White comedians spitting out tea and cakes and being sick because it was made by Indians and Blacks.
That skit was ''taking the piss'' out of white people.
Reply 13
I think LMJ's depiction of middle aged Nigerian ladies (like my aunties) and the black woman named Fiona that doesn't want all of her white friends to know she is black are pretty dead on. I've known people like both of those characters!
Reply 14
She simply does caricatures of black stereotypes, and they are often hilarious. My favourites are the parking attendant, and the black female president one, where she just shouts out african-american black woman phrases to any question(" what are you going to do about the war in the middle east?" "say whaaaaaaat? Bust a cap in their asses girlfriends"etc etc).
She is making light of race, without being racist in any way- a lot of the characters are quite realistic at base( and then exaggerated for comedy effect).
I knew there would be an idiot who would say "if a white person did this they'd be in big trouble". Not true at all, don't you watch any television? In any case, the black woman is making black caricatures. White people often do white ones. Where is the racial aggression?
She is making light of race, without being racist in any way- a lot of the characters are quite realistic at base( and then exaggerated for comedy effect).
I knew there would be an idiot who would say "if a white person did this they'd be in big trouble". Not true at all, don't you watch any television? In any case, the black woman is making black caricatures. White people often do white ones. Where is the racial aggression?
Reply 15
I think at the end of the day Zebedee, black people take the piss out of black stereotypes and white people take the piss out of white stereotypes, and to be honest for the sake of harmony this is probably a good thing.
But they do portray stereotypes that can be seen as true in many cases. The hard-nosed middle-aged black mother, the prim middle-england lady, the extremely racist elderly man on both sides, lager louts/football hooligans.
Goodness Gracious Me was a good example of this. I loved the curry house sketch, because it did remind me of me and my friends when we go out for a curry
. The old indian lady sketch was also quite poignant.
Did anyone see a show called Monkey Dust on BBC3? One of the sketchs was a GM tomato that had been enlarged with the DNA of Bernard Manning. It went on throughout the series, showing these huge tomatoes making extremely racist jokes, usually whilst notting hill style indian wifes talked about how 'ironic', they were. That show in general is an example of how you can get away with anything if you try hard enough.
I didn't like the show in question anyways, in all honesty I just didn't get it.
I love Chris Rock, however he liberally scatters the words cracker and honky throughout his comedy...I do agree that in all honesty a white comedian could not get up and starting making fun of black stereotypes whilst using the word coon for example, without a lot of backlash. Then again, someone should try it before we assume...any volunteers?
But they do portray stereotypes that can be seen as true in many cases. The hard-nosed middle-aged black mother, the prim middle-england lady, the extremely racist elderly man on both sides, lager louts/football hooligans.
Goodness Gracious Me was a good example of this. I loved the curry house sketch, because it did remind me of me and my friends when we go out for a curry
. The old indian lady sketch was also quite poignant.Did anyone see a show called Monkey Dust on BBC3? One of the sketchs was a GM tomato that had been enlarged with the DNA of Bernard Manning. It went on throughout the series, showing these huge tomatoes making extremely racist jokes, usually whilst notting hill style indian wifes talked about how 'ironic', they were
. That show in general is an example of how you can get away with anything if you try hard enough.I didn't like the show in question anyways, in all honesty I just didn't get it.
I love Chris Rock, however he liberally scatters the words cracker and honky throughout his comedy...I do agree that in all honesty a white comedian could not get up and starting making fun of black stereotypes whilst using the word coon for example, without a lot of backlash. Then again, someone should try it before we assume...any volunteers?
Reply 16
13
Monkey Dust was great, I've got series 1 on DVD
Reply 17
Arminius
OP
14
I have to say i think its quite a good program but just wonderin what people thought of this type of humour. There are quite a few comedies like "love thy neighbour" where the racial humour goes both ways between white and black people. I personally find that funny in the same way as Miss Joecelyn is funny/ but you get so many people that complain bout that tv show.
Reply 18
Apagg
Monkey Dust was great, I've got series 1 on DVD
It got better in series two and three...I had them on my HD...but sadly I built a new PC and lost them whilst formatting *cries*.
'I didn't do it, I only said I done it so they'd stop pouring chillie sauce down my japs eye!'
Reply 19
Zebedee
I have to say i think its quite a good program but just wonderin what people thought of this type of humour. There are quite a few comedies like "love thy neighbour" where the racial humour goes both ways between white and black people. I personally find that funny in the same way as Miss Joecelyn is funny/ but you get so many people that complain bout that tv show.
That show WAS racist though, then again...70's and all.
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