Salmond won Why resign?

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stev43219
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#1
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#1
I don't understand why the Scottish voted no because they will come back soon and vote yes anyway. They are just delaying the inevitable.

The Scots hate the tories and seem to want so much more than the rest of the UK and feel they should have all the benefits of north sea oil plus a better share of everything else.

Being the furthest away from the centre of the UK IE London maybe there is a case but they have been getting it good A lot of businesses have moved there Those who are unemployed guess what There are lots of unemployed in London, Wales Northern ireland too.

The truth is there is no magical wand that will transform Scotland only more of the same old same old But in the end we are so much better off than the rest of the world even living on the minimum wage or on social. There are opportunities nationally in education and work if we are prepared to go where the work is and I'm not saying that's right for everyone.

So when Scotland doesn't get all its expecting the nationilsts will wait for the right moment and a new referendum called Maybe as little as 5 years away.

Should have saved time and just got on with it.

Salmond has shown the nationilists it can be done and they will never rest until their goal is achieved Look at how far they have come with the Scottish parliament now getting more powers and half the country wanting out.
So why did Salmond quit? He actually won a huge victory.
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L i b
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#2
Report 7 years ago
#2
(Original post by stev43219)
I don't understand why the Scottish voted no because they will come back soon and vote yes anyway. They are just delaying the inevitable.

[...]

So when Scotland doesn't get all its expecting the nationilsts will wait for the right moment and a new referendum called Maybe as little as 5 years away.

Should have saved time and just got on with it.
Well, it's lovely getting a ridiculous analysis from people who don't understand Scottish politics.

For a start, the nationalists can't hold another referendum without UK Parliament consent, as was granted in an agreed process between the UK and Scottish Governments. The SNP themselves have said this is a once-in-a-generation vote. Even if they did change their minds (and I wouldn't put it past them), the UK Government would hold them to that commitment.

Salmond has shown the nationilists it can be done and they will never rest until their goal is achieved
I don't really care if they don't rest. The British far-left never rest, and yet they're a dull irrelevance that no-one votes for.
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Good bloke
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#3
Report 7 years ago
#3
(Original post by L i b)
For a start, the nationalists can't hold another referendum without UK Parliament consent.
Quite. And getting another overall majority in Holyrood could well be an uphill battle.
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Solivagant
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#4
Report 7 years ago
#4
(Original post by L i b)

I don't really care if they don't rest. The British far-left never rest, and yet they're a dull irrelevance that no-one votes for.
:rofl:
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Good bloke
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#5
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#5
(Original post by stev43219)
So why did Salmond quit? He actually won a huge victory.
No. He was obviously only ever going to get one shot at independence. Everything from the length of the campaign to the timing of referendum day was in his gift; he had the immeasurable benefit of the word "Yes" on the ballot paper, the emotional appeal of independence and all its connotations, the thirst for change, several decades of oil wealth to dangle before Scottish eyes and the advantage of using the power, influence and resources of the Scottish government. Despite all these advantages he was soundly defeated.

He has completely blown it for independence-seekers.
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Fizzel
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#6
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#6
Yeah, I don't understand the idea that this vote just shows independence is inevitable. The debate this time heavily weighed on economics. I'm sure we are going to have the timing line up like this again where the UK was weak economically, Scotland has good oil revenues, lots of discontent at the situation and Westminster. You'd expect the UK to recover, job prospects to increase, oil revenues to decline. If Scottish independence didn't look viable enough now to get a yes vote atm, not sure it will in the foreseeable future.
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the bear
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Good bloke)
No. He was obviously only ever going to get one shot at independence. Everything from the length of the campaign to the timing of referendum day was in his gift; he had the immeasurable benefit of the word "Yes" on the ballot paper, the emotional appeal of independence and all its connotations, the thirst for change and the advantage of using the power, influence and resources of the Scottish government. Despite all these advantages he was soundly defeated.

He has completely blown it for independence-seekers.
his cunning plan to give the vote to schoolchildren did not succeed. the grownups rejected Mr Salmon's fantasies.
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Caedus
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#8
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#8
In the future, the absence of North Sea oil will severely weaken the argument for independence. I can assure you that Scotland will never leave the Union.
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Zander01
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#9
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#9
(Original post by Caedus)
In the future, the absence of North Sea oil will severely weaken the argument for independence. I can assure you that Scotland will never leave the Union.
Unless of course in 40 years time in turns out we still have another 60 years left of oil.Oh how funny that would be
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Jingers
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#10
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#10
Image

Did Salmond win independence? No, he was merely awarded a consolation prize.

Ain't no referendum getting called within 5 years, more like wait at least a decade.
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L i b
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Zander01)
Unless of course in 40 years time in turns out we still have another 60 years left of oil.Oh how funny that would be
Luckily I think one of the greatest winners after Thursday will be the truth. The SNP and Yes have promoted conspiracy theories and invented nonsense in the latter stages of the campaign. That will inevitably have to drop off now.

The oil stuff was a fine case in point. They pushed it too far. When a Yes Scotland front organisation called N-56 put out a ridiculous report pretending their to be far more oil than there was, it was initially praised by the SNP. That was until the whole debacle pushed Sir Ian Wood into commenting, and saying it was all incredible nonsense.

No-one serious ever believed it, and yet it was a dog-whistle to every nutjob going. It was fraudulent, and these sorts of betrayals must never happen again.
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Good bloke
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Zander01)
Unless of course in 40 years time in turns out we still have another 60 years left of oil.Oh how funny that would be
You really should think this through. If, in forty years' time, oil is still a major source of energy, the atmosphere will be shot to pieces and the world as a place of human habitation will in serious trouble.

It is far more likely that we will be generating electricity through means other than fossil fuels and running cars through either batteries or hydrogen fuel cells. The value of oil as a mass market fuel will be zero.
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stev43219
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#13
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#13
Next year is the election No we have 49 labour MP's from scotland who are all going to vote labour and we wont get a referendum on the EU. If we did though Scotland would be up in arms and want to stay in the EU Creating a possible trigger for another referendum.

It never really mattered if Scotland gets its independence anyway. The British government will have Scotland as on of the regions of the EU and Scotland will be answerable to them.
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Good bloke
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#14
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#14
(Original post by stev43219)
Next year is the election No we have 49 labour MP's from scotland who are all going to vote labour and we wont get a referendum on the EU. If we did though Scotland would be up in arms and want to stay in the EU Creating a possible trigger for another referendum.

It never really mattered if Scotland gets its independence anyway. The British government will have Scotland as on of the regions of the EU and Scotland will be answerable to them.
No, you don't seem to understand. Scots have voted to remain in the UK, knowing full well there is likely to be an EU referendum soon. They will be as bound by its outcome as anyone else in the country and will not be getting another referendum on independence for many a long decade. Only slightly more than a third of the electorate voted for independence, which doesn't seem to be a wholehearted call for it.
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Zander01
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Good bloke)
You really should think this through. If, in forty years' time, oil is still a major source of energy, the atmosphere will be shot to pieces and the world as a place of human habitation will in serious trouble.It is far more likely that we will be generating electricity through means other than fossil fuels and running cars through either batteries or hydrogen fuel cells. The value of oil as a mass market fuel will be zero.
wow, talk about ridiculous scaremongering.You do know that the ozone layer is already recovering and the atmosphere is getting healthier, all while oil and gas is the main energy source, the horror!But no maybe you're right. if only scotland had sources of renewable energy to generate electricity. damn
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Good bloke
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Zander01)
wow, talk about ridiculous scaremongering.You do know that the ozone layer is already recovering and the atmosphere is getting healthier, all while oil and gas is the main energy source, the horror!But no maybe you're right. if only scotland had sources of renewable energy to generate electricity. damn
Electricity is not quite so easily exported over long distances as oil and gas, is more readily created almost anywhere, including private homes (and not dependent on unchangeable geology) and much more difficult to store. Lots of countries have the potential to generate it with renewable resources, and are better placed in terms of location to be able to export it to a wide market.
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Mackay
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#17
Report 7 years ago
#17
(Original post by Caedus)
In the future, the absence of North Sea oil will severely weaken the argument for independence. I can assure you that Scotland will never leave the Union.
100% agreed.

Salmond's position was untenable really. His decision to go is one that I respect a great deal.
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mrfletch
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#18
Report 7 years ago
#18
The No campaign had the wrong approach all the way through until Gordon Brown's last-minute speech and STILL just about won. If another referendum came about they'd learn from this and go with a better approach, and their margin of victory would increase if anything. The fact that the Yes campaign couldn't win even against a disastrous No camp shows he could never have won, so has been proven wrong about the single most important aspect of his political role. He was no longer of use and had to go.
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Stewie2011
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#19
Report 7 years ago
#19
E[Q[SUP][/SUP]UOTE=stev43219;50489219]I don't understand why the Scottish voted no because they will come back soon and vote yes anyway. They are just delaying the inevitable.

The Scots hate the tories and seem to want so much more than the rest of the UK and feel they should have all the benefits of north sea oil plus a better share of everything else.

Being the furthest away from the centre of the UK IE London maybe there is a case but they have been getting it good A lot of businesses have moved there Those who are unemployed guess what There are lots of unemployed in London, Wales Northern ireland too.

The truth is there is no magical wand that will transform Scotland only more of the same old same old But in the end we are so much better off than the rest of the world even living on the minimum wage or on social. There are opportunities nationally in education and work if we are prepared to go where the work is and I'm not saying that's right for everyone.

So when Scotland doesn't get all its expecting the nationilsts will wait for the right moment and a new referendum called Maybe as little as 5 years away.

Should have saved time and just got on with it.

Salmond has shown the nationilists it can be done and they will never rest until their goal is achieved Look at how far they have come with the Scottish parliament now getting more powers and half the country wanting out.
So why did Salmond quit? He actually won a huge victory.[/QUOTE]

Well odds were against him getting a yes vote or anywhere near that so 45 percent was good going but winning the referendum was the victory needed. Why quit? Seeing as he did pretty well but did not win he may have planned to quit unless à yes was the outcome, it convienient exit but one other element may have emerged dueing campaigning. That element that he comes across justifed or not as too adversarial to voters, even perhaps à bit bigoted. Not necesarily the case but if Its getting in the way and blocking winning over the remaining voters needed why continue, no point in expelling efforts to get the same result in the future. À woman on the other hand is perhaps less likely tobe seen as this and perhaps win over more woman voters to the cause. Its about not repeatedly hitting the same brick wall I think.
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L i b
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#20
Report 7 years ago
#20
(Original post by stev43219)
Next year is the election No we have 49 labour MP's from scotland who are all going to vote labour and we wont get a referendum on the EU. If we did though Scotland would be up in arms and want to stay in the EU Creating a possible trigger for another referendum.
There's no real evidence of anything more than a slight difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK when it comes to opinions on the EU. But of course, being in a UK does mean the democratic body on reserved issues: that's no trigger for a new referendum.

And the idea of the UK out of the EU and Scotland in it is ridiculous. Whatever happens with the EU, Scotland should follow the rest of the UK. We trade twice as much with the rUK as with the rest of the world - it's only sensible to have a common trade block with them rather than necessarily Europe as a whole.
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